Weaponize your one handed back hand.

[guitarplayer]

Originally Posted by Off The Wall

I've gleaned from Fed all I'm going to. My bh is still not good enough.

Strokes change and evolve. As JY said in another thread, he learns more from the pros than they do from him. Meaning, players go out and try new things based on new materials, or just to find a better way. Some past changes have been eastern grips to western, classical swings to double bends, closed stances to open, etc.

There is probably someone out there trying something new right now. If that person becomes #1 in the world. People like JY and teaching pros will study those strokes and use them as a goals.

So, if KB has something to offer, I'm going to take an independent look at it. If it's something I can use, I will. If I can't, maybe someone else can. If KB is the only one who can make it work, well, good for him and thanks sharing.

If you've....gleaned as you say all you can from Fed's videos.....then I don't think watching a 4.0's backhand will do you much good. Buy hey, you can watch a few of mine free.

[Torres]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

no offense but when i saw that video i thought someone posted it as a joke.

I love Yandell's site and it's worth the money to me so i'm not commenting on that issue.

but why would anyone want to learn that backhand? I'm sure the slow motion also makes it look better too. In person it's probably quite unattractive. Not to mention the grip is too extreme which means exploitable weakness. His off hand usage in the takeback is kind of weird. It's not serving any purpose at all. It's just kind of passively laying there too low on the frame on the lower part of the throat without offering any support or guidance throughout the stroke. The finish is ... idk.... yuck. I guess that's because of the of grip but..
yuck. I only glanced at the vid because i thought it was troll vid but if it were still up i'm sure i could pick it apart more.

Originally Posted by BenP

John, I am a member of tenniplayer.net and love your work and what you do. I read the article and was not impressed with the backhand at all. Is the video deceptive? It did not look like a technically sound backhand at all, but watching it in person in real time is a whole different story. It looks like he doesn't hit through the ball at all and slaps across it, doesn't keep the non dominant hand on the throat. Don't get me wrong, the article has some great points about the one hander, but I don't see it in the video demonstration at all.

I agree 100%. There's alot of good stuff on that website but that video absolutely is not one of them.

[jackcrawford]

Originally Posted by Torres

I agree 100%. There's alot of good stuff on that website but that video absolutely is not one of them.

+2. If the article had been titled something like "A very odd stroke that sometimes produces a heavy ball" I wouldn't even have been moved to post. Claiming this as a model to improve your backhand, and then to have it marketed on TW in an arrogant and belligerent manner, was just too much to let go by.

[arche3]

Someone do a screen capture and post it on YouTube. And send me a link via pm to see it! Please!

[JohnYandell]

Well, I thought what was interesting in the article was the extreme grip variation--the contact way out front, and the use of the body rotation more characteristic of that style. Geoff definitely has a good body turn as well.
There is a lot of energy going into his ball.

I thought the piece would provoke discussion on our site about the range of one-handed options, and there is no doubt that if you saw him hit it in person you would at the least admit it produced a ball that was something serious to have to deal with.

One of the things we try to do on Tennisplayer is present a range of views from a range of players and coaches that have something interesting to say. That backhand is just the logical technical extreme of the extreme swing pattern. But I wouldn't say it was for everyone. Still several subscribers have experimented with Geoff's ideas and are excited with the resutls.

As I mentioned I was surprised that Geoff made the posts here about it that he did--he would have been much better off just posting his backhand views in a current thread or starting a thread about the extreme backhand rather than talking about how great the article was--he really got off on the wrong foot and he and I have discussed that.

[jdubbs]

It would be cool to see a vid where an amateur fixes a stroke by emulating a pro...and seeing the progression.

[JohnYandell]

Agreed! We have a section called Your Strokes where we do that comparision--and many we have before and after.

[arche3]

So someone post the video already..... jeesh.

[JohnYandell]

Jack Crawford,

Just noticed your post regarding Heath. Brian Gordon''s 3D research comes to a completely different conclusion than Heath regarding the keys to the forehand and especially how stretch shorten cycles work in producing racket speed.

Heath's a passionate successful guy and a friend of mine but the work Brian is doing is the only work of it's kind in the world of tennis at this time. So, no he is not recycling Heath.

[djarvik]

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

Ben P,

In the Your Strokes section, it's explained. But if you have a link you can send that. I need a video I can advance frame by frame. So if you have QT all the better. If not maybe we can convert it.

John Yandell jyandell@tennisplayer.net

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

One of the things we try to do on Tennisplayer is present a range of views from a range of players and coaches that have something interesting to say.

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

We have a section called Your Strokes where we do that comparision--and many we have before and after.

No John, you not marketing at all.



Either OP posts the video, or the discussion is about nothing. Has no merit, no substance, no sample. We discussing an invisible backhand technique that is only visible to paying customers of John.


Does no one things it is wrong? I dont care how good John's site is (or how bad), but as it stands, I dont want to sign-up to find out.



SHOW ME THE BACKHAND!

[danno123]

Well, let's see what's new on talk tennis. Hey! There's a thread about how to "weaponize" my one-handed backhand. Sounds interesting. click. hmmmmmm. click. ummmm. click. uhhhhhhhhh. I'm just gonna back out slowly.

[BobFL]

I fail to see why would anyone pay for subscription when SO MUCH data is available for free. And the video was a joke. 3.5 seconds of nothing...

[anubis]

Originally Posted by TeflonTom

when did they design it brah? 5, 10, 15 years ago? its not great, esp the way mobile browsing goes. most good sites have redisgned last couple yrs to make it better for tabs, smartphones. low density UI, clean lines, minimal content pp, structured browsing

ur turning people off by shoving tons of text crammed onto a bland backgrnd in ppls face when they click on ur site. breaking a lot of rules for good site design.

Again, good points. Good UI design is at the heart of good software development. I work for a software development firm and we follow Microsoft's UI design principles rather religiously. You can find them here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../aa511440.aspx

All of what he said is absolutely fundamental when designing a UI. A poor UI can turn off more subscribers rather than poor or "just meh" content.

You can turn a potential subscriber base from "interested" to "excited" by designing a UI that takes into consideration people's natural eye movement, where your mouse "automatically" goes to, pattern recognition, and overall density of text and pictures.

Just my .02.

[BobFL]

............................

[Ash_Smith]

Apologies for the necro - but just found my login for TP.net again and remembered this discussion...

Having watched Geoff's (kiteboard's) vid it's incredibly apparent how much like the reverse backhand we teach wheelchair tennis players, down to the tricep extension to initiate the stroke, followed by the external rotation to finish. What I find interesting is that Geoff hits it just above hip height in the video, we teach the reverse because our players frequently are making contact at shoulder or above, for which this technique is pretty optimal.

Just my musings

Cheers

[marosmith]

This should be a sticky, best thread ever, brah.

[onehandbh]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Now only if I had a great fh and serve! Working on that through the Gordon pieces on the same site. Already seen a big jump, with the snap back fh, diagonal load, wrist flexion, type 3 fh. Ever see how few women hit their fh like the top men do? No snap back.

IMO, one of the biggest issues with your FH, your upper arm is way too
close to your body for almost the entire stroke. Your upper arm looks like it
is almost right up against your torso.

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Fed's bh suffers from a heel/toe error and a lifting the hitting heel error. He lands toe heel on the hitting foot, instead of heel/toe too many times, and he then lifts off the heel of the hitting foot, which causes him to lose against Nadal's high balls. He also goes low to high on his bh top spin on high shots, instead of starting high and hitting straight through it. He then chooses cc slice almost always, which lays up for Nadal to crush, hence, no change or chance to win on clay... Ever see Fed hit a top spin bh dtl against a high ball hit to him by Nadal for a winner? No. And you never will either. He won't learn it now.

Fed's BH looked pretty good here. Watch from around 3:30 on. Indian Wells
courts are super slow and high bouncing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d3V7fGWG90

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith

Having watched Geoff's (kiteboard's) vid it's incredibly apparent how much like the reverse backhand we teach wheelchair tennis players, down to the tricep extension to initiate the stroke, followed by the external rotation to finish. What I find interesting is that Geoff hits it just above hip height in the video, we teach the reverse because our players frequently are making contact at shoulder or above, for which this technique is pretty optimal.

In your opinion, would you say Geoff's wheelchair style BH with reverse
finish is a handicap? Or does it not matter?

It looks like he gets good torso rotation into the shot.
Over the years, I've seen a few self-taught one hand backhands using the
same technique. Some had elbow issues due to accidentally hyperextending
and/or leading with the elbow too much.

I'm currently trying to improve my high topspin backhand. I tend to hit it
too loopy unless I take it on the rise or hit down on the ball.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

I have an article online this month, with lots of videos, of my back hand, with the h22 at 365g, strung with l-tec os/4s: http://www.tennisplayer.net, if you want to see kb in action.

One of the video clips shows the shot from the baseline, side, and the ball comes into screen, and I hit the shot, and the ball just squashes down so much, that it completely disappears. Lots of discussion on the forum with a comparative clip of Henin and Federer's back hand side by side. Also a great piece by Gordon on the ATP forehand, type 3, that Fed/joker/Nadal all share.

You have to pay for this site. It is not free. Why is that ?

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by onehandbh

In your opinion, would you say Geoff's wheelchair style BH with reverse
finish is a handicap? Or does it not matter?

Some had elbow issues due to accidentally hyperextending
and/or leading with the elbow too much.

not sure that it's a "handicap" as such, especially if Geoff has found a way to make it work for his level. As with many "extreme" techniques there are ways to counter it (in this case, low, skiddy slice), but to say it's a "handicap" would be off the mark in my opinion. For our players it is a massive advantage over the conventional backhand.

Hyper-extension is an potential issue, as is an impingement in the shoulder if the player is unable to lean away at contact (lack of core muscle function for example)

Cheers

[arche3]

Someone please do a screen recording of the clip. Dying to see it.