Steffi the only player (male or female) to have defended all the majors

[kiki]

Originally Posted by boredone3456

Kournikova one of the strongest women of the late 90's? Sorry but absolutely not, she never even won a singles title. She does not deserve to be put in the same breath as those other women. Novotna would be a much better choice. To say Kournikova is just ridiculous.

That is your opinion.Mine is, the two best ever eras in women´s tennis ( just open era tennis) are, from 1975 to 1980, starting with Court and King, going through Wade,Cawley,Evert LLoyd and Navratilova and edning with Mandlikova and Tracy Austin...and 1996 to 2000 or 2001, when Graf and Seles, not to mention Sanchez,Pierce and Martinez were competitive, and a new ultratalented crop, led by Hingis,Williams,Davenport,Kournikova and Capriati were playing their best tennis.Clijsters and Serena would start their careers just at the end of this second great era.

[Steffi-forever]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

How much you win is largely due to your competition though. The fact Martina aged 29 or older for 4 of their 5 meetings, with Steffi aged 17 to 22 and World #1 in 3 of those, went 4-1 vs Steffi at the U.S Open, and even choked a big lead in the one loss, shows that Martina >>> Steffi in pure ability on their most neutral surface, and had they been in their primes together Martina would have been much stronger on even a neutral court.

Yes, but what about the other slams? Graf is 2-1 & Nav. at Wimbledon. Let's assume they'll be equal there in their prime. It leaves the clay of the French and the grass or rebound ace for the AO... In her prime, Nav. lost there on grass & Evert, Sukova, Mandlikova. Graf & Novotna and Seles. Only one GS (USO) doesn't give the whole picture about how they would play & each other in their prime. Don't forget they've played 15 out of 18 times (Miami is a slow HC I think) on fast surfaces... Graf is arguably as great on slow (10 slams on slow vs 12 on fast) but not Navratilova.

AO Grass - Navratilova
AO RA - Graf
FO - Graf
WIM - they would be equal imo
US0 - Navratilova

So both in their prime will most certainly not be : Martina >>> Steffi. It would be Martina = Steffi imo.

[Limpinhitter]

How many aliases does Joe Pike have?

[abmk]

Originally Posted by boredone3456

Kournikova one of the strongest women of the late 90's? Sorry but absolutely not, she never even won a singles title. She does not deserve to be put in the same breath as those other women. Novotna would be a much better choice. To say Kournikova is just ridiculous.

why are you so surprised ? its kiki la la land after all ......

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by treblings

look at the facts and figures. all these arguments about strong/weak competition or past her prime/not yet in her prime are personal opinions

I concur:

Tournament wins- Court 199, Navratilova 167, Evert 158, Graf 107
Most Australian Opens- Court
Most French Opens- Evert
Most Wimbledons- Navratilova
Most U.S Opens in Open Era- Evert
Most WTA Championships- Navratilova
Most Overall Slams- Court
Most Dominance- Navratilova
Most Longevity- Navratilova
Most Consistency- Evert
Most Accomplishments- Court
Best Doubles perfromances- Court and Navratilova
Best Combined Singles/Doubles performances- Court and Navratilova

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by Steffi-forever

Yes, but what about the other slams? Graf is 2-1 & Nav. at Wimbledon. Let's assume they'll be equal there in their prime. It leaves the clay of the French and the grass or rebound ace for the AO... In her prime, Nav. lost there on grass & Evert, Sukova, Mandlikova. Graf & Novotna and Seles. Only one GS (USO) doesn't give the whole picture about how they would play & each other in their prime. Don't forget they've played 15 out of 18 times (Miami is a slow HC I think) on fast surfaces... Graf is arguably as great on slow (10 slams on slow vs 12 on fast) but not Navratilova.

AO Grass - Navratilova
AO RA - Graf
FO - Graf
WIM - they would be equal imo
US0 - Navratilova

So both in their prime will most certainly not be : Martina >>> Steffi. It would be Martina = Steffi imo.

Navratilova is the grass court GOAT. What reason is there to believe Steffi would do better on grass vs the grass GOAT than on decoturf with both in their primes. The Wimbledon H2H is more in Steffi's favor only since their meetings came in 88 and 89 when MN was even more aged and past her prime than she already was in 86 and 87, plus 1988 was a major slumping year for Navratilova, even by her past prime standards, probably her worst year of tennis after 1994. Wimbledon 89 was probably one of the best slams Graf ever played, above her usual level, and in her true best year of tennis she would ever produce.

Navratilova would probably dominate Graf even more thoroughly at Wimbledon in their mutual primes than the U.S Open, based on the simple fact that is Navratilova's most dominant surface and slam, and the place she is consdered best ever on. You also didnt mention the WTA Championships, where Navratilova the carpet/indoor GOAT would also have the edge.

A 30 year old Navratilova outplayed and should have beaten a prime Steffi in the 87 French Open final, only didnt due to a bad choke especialy in the first game she served for it with 2 double faults and 4 errors, so Steffi having the edge there prime on prime is questionable at best. Rebound ace is probably Graf's worst surface, and Navratilova didnt get to play there once during her prime, so who knows even there.

[abmk]

^^

Calendar slam ( on 3 surfaces )
Most weeks at #1
Most no of fully attended slams (not fully counting Court's AOs )
Most versatile across all surfaces (/slams )

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

How many aliases does Joe Pike have?

...I was just thinking the very same¡¡¡

but this new JP seems more moderate and kind than the former one ( maybe the former one got a " minor" stabbing)

[kiki]

Originally Posted by abmk

why are you so surprised ? its kiki la la land after all ......

The federal is back again¡¡¡

[abmk]

Originally Posted by kiki

The federal is back again¡¡¡

there is no word called federal in this context ...... your english/comprehension is just as bad as your cluelessness about tennis ...

ah, yes, Laver-****, let us all know how the mighty Kournikova frightened all the singles players in the late 90s and won tons of singles titles .... oh wait .... she didn't win any ....

[kiki]

Originally Posted by abmk

there is no word called federal in this context ...... your english/comprehension is just as bad as your cluelessness about tennis ...

ah, yes, Laver-****, let us all know how the mighty Kournikova frightened all the singles players in the late 90s and won tons of singles titles .... oh wait .... she didn't win any ....

Repat with me "I was a little kid when 80´s and 90´s tennis", repeat with me " I was a little kid when 80´s and 90´s tennis"

[abmk]

Originally Posted by kiki

Repat with me "I was a little kid when 80´s and 90´s tennis", repeat with me " I was a little kid when 80´s and 90´s tennis"

Here is a list of Kournikova's singles titles :






















/END

[kiki]

Hre is a list of Federer´s Grand Slams:

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by abmk

Here is a list of Kournikova's singles titles :















/END

What about juniors?

[abmk]

Originally Posted by kiki

Hre is a list of Federer´s Grand Slams:

He has 16 of them, your problem is you don't know anything about tennis ....

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by abmk

Calendar slam ( on 3 surfaces )

The same argument used against Laver and still a failed one in this case too. A Grand Slam is a Grand Slam. Like Laver, Connolly and Court probably would have excelled even more on hard courts, and only benefited from 2 hard court slams like today. 3 women have won the Grand Slam and Graf is one of them. Her achievement equals the best of all time in this one regard, but not alone, 3 stand exactly equal here.

Most weeks at #1

Computer rankings for women only began in 1975. No way to know if she really has more weeks at #1 than Lenglen, Wills, Court, or even Evert.

Most no of fully attended slams (not fully counting Court's AOs )

You cant do that. That is just like someone discounting Federer's Wimbledons since he had no competition, Nadal's French Opens since he had no competition, or all the slams Graf won after Seles was stabbed. Court had weak competition at "some" of the Australian Opens she won, albeit she still beat Bueno, King, Goolagong, in finals there, but she has 11 Australian Opens and 24 slams. Fact.

Now subjectively you can argue against the value due to lack of competition, and when it comes to Court and the Australian Open you have a valid point t hen, but then again this does not help Graf by comparision in any sense, it does help Navratilova and Evert.

Most versatile across all surfaces (/slams )

Probably but only due to the Seles stabbing. At the time of that she had only 2 French and 2 U.S Open titles. Would her 4 of each slam record have even been possible without the Seles stabbing? She would have needed atleast 2 more French Opens and Seles had won the last 3, atleast 2 more U.S Opens and Seles had won the last 2, and she had only 4 years left as a real contender (apart from her blip return to the top in mid 99) and didnt even win all 4 as it was without Seles. Also would have needed to win the 94 Australian Open, the only Australian she both played and contended after the Seles stabbing, and that was a year after playing her best and getting clobbered by the Seles in the 93 final.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by abmk

He has 16 of them, your problem is you don't know anything about tennis ....

GS is 4 majors the same year...you still dind´t know that?

Oh¡ wait, you are delusional since your hero has a deficit of -3 vs Laver...

[abmk]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

The same argument used against Laver and still a failed one in this case too. A Grand Slam is a Grand Slam. Like Laver, Connolly and Court probably would have excelled even more on hard courts, and only benefited from 2 hard court slams like today. 3 women have won the Grand Slam and Graf is one of them. Her achievement equals the best of all time in this one regard, but not alone, 3 stand exactly equal here.

no, you fail here .... hard courts are the most neutral surface as far as playing styles are concerned. Hence competition is the toughest ....

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Computer rankings for women only began in 1975. No way to know if she really has more weeks at #1 than Lenglen, Wills, Court, or even Evert.

fine ...

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

You cant do that. That is just like someone discounting Federer's Wimbledons since he had no competition, Nadal's French Opens since he had no competition, or all the slams Graf won after Seles was stabbed. Court had weak competition at "some" of the Australian Opens she won, albeit she still beat Bueno, King, Goolagong, in finals there, but she has 11 Australian Opens and 24 slams. Fact.

Now subjectively you can argue against the value due to lack of competition, and when it comes to Court and the Australian Open you have a valid point t hen, but then again this does not help Graf by comparision in any sense, it does help Navratilova and Evert.

err, what a load of BS. federer didn't have weak competition at wimbledon, neither did rafa at the FO .....both faced full or near full fields ...... not the case with Court's slams at the AO , many of which were poorly attended

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Probably but only due to the Seles stabbing. At the time of that she had only 2 French and 2 U.S Open titles. Would her 4 of each slam record have even been possible without the Seles stabbing? She would have needed atleast 2 more French Opens and Seles had won the last 3, atleast 2 more U.S Opens and Seles had won the last 2, and she had only 4 years left as a real contender (apart from her blip return to the top in mid 99) and didnt even win all 4 as it was without Seles. Also would have needed to win the 94 Australian Open, the only Australian she both played and contended after the Seles stabbing, and that was a year after playing her best and getting clobbered by the Seles in the 93 final.

all subjective as to how much she would've won without the stabbing ....

[abmk]

Originally Posted by kiki

GS is 4 majors the same year...you still dind´t know that?

Oh¡ wait, you are delusional since your hero has a deficit of -3 vs Laver...

times change - but then you are still living in the 60s ...

[kiki]

Originally Posted by abmk

times change - but then you are still living in the 60s ...

1962,1967 and 1969 are the years Federer - and his fans- hate most.No doubt.