The Pancho Gonzales Serve!

[Fearsome Forehand]

Originally Posted by TennisDawg

I think you're correct about the height, I've read he may have been 6' 3". He also drank more than he should have. I give him a pass when it comes to being surly, he came from a different culture than most of the lilly white tennis establishment and he was proud of his heritage. I would bet he dealt with bias and prejudice which could make you a little pis**ed off and a bit surly. He basically took no sh**t and I admire him for that. He was not a boring player that's for sure. Give me Pancho any day over the likes of "Tony Trabert" and others.

Some people are just surly by nature.

Mac and Connors weren't exactly beaners and they both acted like arrogant jerks.

Pancho went to a reform school when he was young. (The spooky place in Central CA that was featured on Ghost Adventures.) He also served in the Navy so he didn't have the typical tennis academy upbringing commonplace today. There are worse things than being surly.

He won a pro tournament in LV in his early 40's. Not too many players can do that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Gonzales

[TennisDawg]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

Some people are just surly by nature.

Mac and Connors weren't exactly beaners and they both acted like arrogant jerks.

Pancho went to a reform school when he was young. (The spooky place in Central CA that was featured on Ghost Adventures.) He also served in the Navy so he didn't have the typical tennis academy upbringing commonplace today. There are worse things than being surly.

He won a pro tournament in LV in his early 40's. Not too many players can do that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Gonzales

You've just proved my point. If Pancho was subjected to terms like "beaner" and other types of racial slurs, he would become surly.

[Fearsome Forehand]

You could call me beaner all day long and it wouldn't alter my personality. Sticks and stones. But certainly, not being allowed to play at the all white clubs probably gave PG more incentive to kick some butt.

I think to be number 1, you have to be sort of a selfish, self absorbed person. The "nice guys" are number 53. Fed seems too be an exception to that rule.

PG also allegedly kicked the crap out of AA's sister Rita when he was married to her. Agassi's dad hated him. PG was married and divorced six times. Not exactly going to win citizen of the year but he was a great tennis player. Died penniless apparently. AA paid for his funeral.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by TennisDawg

Yea, I've read that Kramer also was the Kingpin of the Tennis tour back then and he had the tennis establishment behind him. No one really mentions how Gonzales basically owned Laver the one that is touted as the GOAT by many. He also taught the young Connors a thing or two and beat Arthur Ashe, he was way way past his prime when he did it.
I've nothing against Laver, Rosewall, Hoad, Budge, however if I read these threads and no mention is made of Gonzales than I dismiss the thread, it's not a serious discussion.

Actually, Laver had a large H2H advantage over Gonzales. But, Pancho was past his prime before Laver reached his prime. Also, Pancho beat many top 10 players, including #1 Laver, Newcombe, Ashe, Emerson, Paserell and others, after he turned 40, and some of those wins were in the majors.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

You could call me beaner all day long and it wouldn't alter my personality. Sticks and stones. But certainly, not being allowed to play at the all white clubs probably gave PG more incentive to kick some butt.

I think to be number 1, you have to be sort of a selfish, self absorbed person. The "nice guys" are number 53. Fed seems too be an exception to that rule.

PG also allegedly kicked the crap out of AA's sister Rita when he was married to her. Not exactly going to win citizen of the year but he was a great tennis player.

Not exactly. Pancho was considered to be friendly, even jovial, when he was an amateur winning his two U.S. Nationals. It was after he turned pro and was dominated by Jack Kramer, and then paid less on the pro tour than the other lesser players, that his personality changed and he became recluse and bitter. It is presumed by most commentators that those were the primary factors in Pancho's change of personality.

[TennisDawg]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

You could call me beaner all day long and it wouldn't alter my personality. Sticks and stones. But certainly, not being allowed to play at the all white clubs probably gave PG more incentive to kick some butt.
.

Good for you, but some folks see that as a dismissive deragatory term, no different than the N word. I also don't approve of needling and harrasing someone because they happen to be a particular race or ethnicity. If you happen to be of Mexican heritage and you're not bothered being called a deragatory racial slur all day long, then you should have your head examined.
If you're not of Mexican heritage then your comments don't make any sense and have no merit, you simply don't know what you're talking about!

This conversation has gradually shifted into another area.

I am going to let Pancho Gonzales rest in peace!

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

Was one of the best, perhaps the best player, of his era. Once Kramer retired, he was the best for quite a few years. Kramer owned him head to head.

Their head-to-head was pretty even after their 1950 pro tour had ended.