Penn State Sanctions

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by michael_1265

I'm not sure about Orwellian, but I am sure the NCAA was trying to hit PSU where it hurt: Paterno's legacy. I don't know how much sense it makes, or what it will change, though.

But it doesn't change his legacy. Now everyone will say, Paterno is the most winning coach but they changed his wins to losses because of Sandusky.

It's not like the old USSR, everyone knows Paterno won more games. You can't actually change history, and Paterno has not been accused of cheating in those games. That's why I use the term Orwellian.

[r2473]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

That's why I use the term Orwellian.

perfect term

[West Coast Ace]

Originally Posted by jamesblakefan#1

I meant nothing will ever change as far as these schools always going after the money first.

And you left out: 'they don't think they'll get caught because of their arrogance.'

Originally Posted by albino smurf

They covered up child **** for over a decade. They should have shut down the football program permanently.

Why? Those behind the coverup are being dealt with by the criminal and civil court system? Why does the NCAA have to get involved? Because they're reputation was injured? The NCAA is a joke: the 'student/athlete' is the biggest charade known to man (see @jamesblakefan#1's comments) - it's ALL about the cash! They only caved in with the 4 team playoff because TV ratings and ticket sales for the bowls tanked - people were fed up.

Note: grew up in PA but was no fan of Joe and PSU - they played a candy *ss schedule (before they joined the Big 10), then wonder why they weren't respected. But 'vacating' the wins is stupid and does nothing to help the victims or deter others in positions of power who will turn their back instead of doing the right thing.

[jamesblakefan#1]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

But it doesn't change his legacy. Now everyone will say, Paterno is the most winning coach but they changed his wins to losses because of Sandusky.

It's not like the old USSR, everyone knows Paterno won more games. You can't actually change history, and Paterno has not been accused of cheating in those games. That's why I use the term Orwellian.

Do you know who won the 2004 BCS Championship? Exactly, nobody.

[maleyoyo]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

But it doesn't change his legacy. Now everyone will say, Paterno is the most winning coach but they changed his wins to losses because of Sandusky.

It's not like the old USSR, everyone knows Paterno won more games. You can't actually change history, and Paterno has not been accused of cheating in those games. That's why I use the term Orwellian.

I struggle to follow your reasoning here. According to you if Paterno had used his power to cheat to win games, then it would have been justified to change his wins to losses. Paterno did abuse his powers putting his football program and winning football games above those victims. If Paterno and his cronies have their way, Sandusky is still molesting children up to this day.
Considering the magnitude of the offense, it makes sense to me to wipe out Paterno’s legacy.
It seems odd to me that people is saying how PS’s punishments are unfair to those not involved, but if the offense is cheating instead, would people still be complaining ?

[r2473]

Originally Posted by jamesblakefan#1

Do you know who won the 2004 BCS Championship? Exactly, nobody.

omg! heycal was right

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=225264

[pinky42]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

You can't actually change history, and Paterno has not been accused of cheating in those games.

If the NCAA had learned about PSU's and Paterno's actions (or lack of them) sooner do you think the NCAA would have punished them? For example, let's say that this is 1998 instead of 2012 and the Sandusky story breaks. Do you think Paterno would have been allowed to continue coaching? If the answer is no then it wouldn't be unreasonable to vacate those wins.

Now, there's a question of whether the NCAA should have punished PSU at all or if they should have left it as purely a criminal and civil matter. However, PSU seems to have agreed to the punishment so that ship has sailed.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I think the Orwellian changing of the school's wins to losses is absurd. As I understand it, the school is being punished for the bad behavior of the coaches covering up child molestation, not for cheating. How did child molestation help the team win games?

You could argue that them keeping the child molesting a secret helped them recruit a lot of the players they got over the last decade which in turn hel[ed them win games. Taking wins away from JoePa is great to me because its obvious all he cared about was having the most wins in history. It just shows you can do this and its something baseball should do with the roiders so they dont hold every record in that sport. Make Hank Aaron the HR king again, Maris the single season holder, and Gehrig the Grand Slam holder instead of Afraud.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by maleyoyo

I struggle to follow your reasoning here. According to you if Paterno had used his power to cheat to win games, then it would have been justified to change his wins to losses. Paterno did abuse his powers putting his football program and winning football games above those victims. If Paterno and his cronies have their way, Sandusky is still molesting children up to this day.
Considering the magnitude of the offense, it makes sense to me to wipe out Paterno’s legacy.
It seems odd to me that people is saying how PS’s punishments are unfair to those not involved, but if the offense is cheating instead, would people still be complaining ?

Agree totally, cant believe so many people feel so sorry for Paterno after what he did

[jamesblakefan#1]

Other coaches are over Happy Valley like vultures trying to poach PSU players.

http://deadspin.com/5929042/opposing...-poach-players

But I'm sure they just want them to come to their schools for the good education, right?

[Crispvolley]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

Agree totally, cant believe so many people feel so sorry for Paterno after what he did

I also agree. Further, if he was willing to cover for a pedophile i don't think its a huge stretch to think that he might have been very comfortable covering up more typical violations. Its interesting to watch this OTL episode now that perceptions of Paterno have changed.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7229980

[Avles]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

It's not like the old USSR, everyone knows Paterno won more games. You can't actually change history, and Paterno has not been accused of cheating in those games. That's why I use the term Orwellian.

Orwellian was the term I thought of too. For me vacating the wins seems like a way of trying to cleanse the record, to pretend that somehow all that dirty business wasn't really part of college football. But of course it was. I see no reason to let the NCAA avoid the embarrassment of having their winningest coach be associated with the scandal.

I don't care much what they do to the PSU program going forward, but I think the wins and Paterno's record should stay intact-- in part as a reminder that there are more important things than wins and records.

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by Avles

Orwellian was the term I thought of too. For me vacating the wins seems like a way of trying to cleanse the record, to pretend that somehow all that dirty business wasn't really part of college football. But of course it was. I see no reason to let the NCAA avoid the embarrassment of having their winningest coach be associated with the scandal.

I don't care much what they do to the PSU program going forward, but I think the wins and Paterno's record should stay intact-- in part as a reminder that there are more important things than wins and records.

There needs to be no reminder and his record should be vacated. Believe me, this situation will be remembered for decades to come. His name or record should not even be remotely on the same list as other reputable coaches who earned their wins without having to hide such atrocities.

Vacating the record communicates the message strongly.

[Fearsome Forehand]

Vacating the wins was strictly punitive. Paterno is no longer the winningest
coach. That is the whole point. That and the precedent. It won't do you any good to cover up criminality because when we find out about it, all your wins will become losses.