Can one really generalize about the fans of any single tennis player?

[Lsmkenpo]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Trolling? For putting forward the case of other players? LOL.

Yeah, I would say it is a passive form of trolling, no question about it.

This is a major problem with the world, people don't say what they mean or mean what they say.

No need for you to make a 1000 passive trolling posts on the subject.

Why don't you just say what you really think.

Do you need my help to teach you how to express what you feel, with just a couple of posts, seems you are wasting a lot of energy and a lot of posters time.

Here is all you need to post.

Nadal > Federer and maybe an occasional bad picture of Federer every once and awhile. That is all you need, not a thousand passive trolling posts.

[Antonio Puente]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

Is that right, here is the problem, you thought, you got any proof whatsoever of these accusations against me, or are you basing it on your ill conceived perceptions? I do believe many players are using PEDS not just Nadal, never have I singled him out as the only one, anyone who doesn't believe tennis players use PEDS is just plain stupid.

I would applaud you for challenging the status quo and conventional wisdom on the subject, but I recently learned this constitutes trolling.

[Antonio Puente]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

Yeah, I would say it is a passive form of trolling, no question about it.

This is a major problem with the world, people don't say what they mean or mean what they say.

No need for you to make a 1000 passive trolling posts on the subject.

Why don't you just say what you really think.

Do you need my help to teach you how to express what you feel, with just a couple of posts, seems you are wasting a lot of energy and a lot of posters time.

Here is all you need to post.

Nadal > Federer and maybe an occasional bad picture of Federer every once and awhile. That is all you need, not a thousand passive trolling posts.

Or, if you disagree with his analysis, you could man-up and debate him when the next opportunity arises instead of crying about it in this thread. Again, I basically get the sense you're crying about it here because he's better at the game than you.

[Lsmkenpo]

Originally Posted by Antonio Puente

I would applaud you for challenging the status quo and conventional wisdom on the subject but I recently learned this constitutes trolling.

No, you still have learning to do You see, posting your opinion is fine, but posting an opinion you don't believe in, with an agenda to raise the ire of the
fans of another player is trolling, comprende?

[Lsmkenpo]

Originally Posted by Antonio Puente

Or, if you disagree with his analysis, you could man-up and debate him when the next opportunity arises instead of crying about it in this thread. Again, I basically get the sense you're crying about it here because he's better at the game than you.

Perhaps you need to read the forum a little more, if you don't think I tear into Mustard's analysis when I disagree with it quite often.

Here is the sense I get about you, a weak *******, trying to support an even weaker *******. That seems about right, NO?

[Lsmkenpo]

Mustard, the poster who refuses to believe courts have been slowed down.

Gee, I wonder why he refuses to accept this fact.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

Mustard, the poster who refuses to believe courts have been slowed down.

Gee, I wonder why he refuses to accept this fact.

For goodness sake. It's a combination of things.

1. The slow fazing out of carpet courts from 1996-2007
2. Wimbledon changing to 100% Rye grass in September 2001 (2002 Wimbledon was the slowest, BTW)
3. The change from Rebound Ace to Plexicushion at the Australian Open, starting in 2008
4. Clay-courts also seem a bit faster than in the past

Despite all this, there is still clear differences between the different surfaces. I get the impression that some people think tennis in the 1990s was just a serve and volley fest, when the reality is that even players like Sampras and Becker would regularly stay back and rally on hardcourts.

[Lsmkenpo]

Originally Posted by Mustard

For goodness sake. It's a combination of things.

1. The slow fazing out of carpet courts from 1996-2007
2. Wimbledon changing to 100% Rye grass in September 2001 (2002 Wimbledon was the slowest, BTW)
3. The change from Rebound Ace to Plexicushion at the Australian Open, starting in 2008
4. Clay-courts also seem a bit faster than in the past

Despite all this, there is still clear differences between the different surfaces. I get the impression that some people think tennis in the 1990s was just a serve and volley fest, when the reality is that even players like Sampras and Becker would regularly stay back and rally on hardcourts.

So, lets break this down and get your opinion on the matter.

I say right now, surfaces across the board have never been slower, the average court pace on tour is at an all time low, it has been getting slower over the past decade, agree or disagree?

[Antonio Puente]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

No, you still have learning to do You see, posting your opinion is fine, but posting an opinion you don't believe in, with an agenda to raise the ire of the
fans of another player is trolling, comprende?

Thank you, I wasn't aware of that rule. I appreciate your scholarly analysis on the subject of trolling.

Oh, I have it now. I just opened the Modern Compendium of Trolling(forward by F1Bob) and found that rule on page 14.

[Lsmkenpo]

Originally Posted by Antonio Puente

Thank you, I wasn't aware of that rule. I appreciate your scholarly analysis on the subject of trolling.

Oh, I have it now. I just opened the Modern Compendium of Trolling(forward by F1Bob) and found that rule on page 14.

Run along kid, I am in a big debate over court pace with your uncle Mustard, don't have time for you right now.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

So, lets break this down and get your opinion on the matter.

I say right now, surfaces across the board have never been slower, the average court pace on tour is at an all time low, agree or disagree?

It's more homogenised than in the past, but there are still clear differences. As for speed across the board, with no carpet courts on tour, it has to be slower.

[Antonio Puente]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

Run along kid, I am in a big debate over court pace with your uncle Mustard, don't have time for you right now.

Well, that's certainly better than crying about it.

[Lsmkenpo]

Originally Posted by Mustard

It's more homogenised than in the past, but there are still clear differences. As for speed across the board, with no carpet courts on tour, it has to be slower.

OK, lets throw carpet out of the debate, here I will make it more specific for you. So we can get a real look at your opinion on the matter. I will name a few tournaments and you tell me if you think any of these are playing slower over the past decade.

US OPEN

Wimbledon

Australian Open

Indian Wells

Miami

[YouCantBeSerious]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

Is that right, here is the problem, you thought, you got any proof whatsoever of these accusations against me, or are you basing it on your ill conceived perceptions? I do believe many players are using PEDS not just Nadal, never have I singled him out as the only one, anyone who doesn't believe tennis players use PEDS is just plain stupid.

Do you think Federer is doping too?

[YouCantBeSerious]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

No, you still have learning to do You see, posting your opinion is fine, but posting an opinion you don't believe in, with an agenda to raise the ire of the
fans of another player is trolling, comprende?

Are you saying that Mustard believes Federer, and not Laver, is the GOAT? Or does he just not believe the idea of GOAT is viable?

And, isn't posting style part of what can constitute trolling? There is one million ways to say something, and it seems to me you are never the most diplomatic person. Doesn't that make you, in a sense, a troll?

[Lsmkenpo]

Originally Posted by YouCantBeSerious

Do you think Federer is doping too?

I don't know about currently, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did use some form of PEDs at one time or another in his career. But he isn't exactly a
grinder that is trying to wear out his opponent during a match, is he?

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

OK, lets throw carpet out of the debate, here I will make it more specific for you. So we can get a real look at your opinion on the matter. I will name a few tournaments and you tell me if you think any of these are playing slower over the past decade.

US OPEN

Wimbledon

Australian Open

Indian Wells

Miami

Slowest Wimbledon was in 2002. This year's Australian Open seemed slower compared to previous Plexicushion years. Indian Wells is mediumish paced. Miami is slow for a hardcourt. The US Open is fast for a hardcourt.

[YouCantBeSerious]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

Perhaps you need to read the forum a little more, if you don't think I tear into Mustard's analysis when I disagree with it quite often.

Here is the sense I get about you, a weak *******, trying to support an even weaker *******. That seems about right, NO?

OK, see? Here's the problem. I think this is trolling right here.

[YouCantBeSerious]

Originally Posted by Lsmkenpo

I don't know about currently, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did use some form of PEDs at one time or another in his career. But he isn't exactly a
grinder that is trying to wear out his opponent during a match, is he?

So you were saying you were not singling out players, but that's what you just did. You are implying that because Nadal has a more physical game he must dope, while Federer is not very likely to dope.

Do you see what you just did? And, as far as I am concerned, grinding or not, Fed could also benefit from PED use to enhance his stamina in long matches, for example. Paraphrasing your earlier statement, anybody who doesn't think that's true is stupid.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by YouCantBeSerious

Are you saying that Mustard believes Federer, and not Laver, is the GOAT? Or does he just not believe the idea of GOAT is viable?

I was putting forward Laver's case for GOAT on a forum where a load of posters put forward Federer's case for GOAT. I was trying to show why Federer isn't the only GOAT candidate. For example, Laver has won 200 tournaments, had 7 years in a row as the world's best player, won 2 Grand Slams and won a Professional Grand Slam. Looking at this data, it is clear that Laver is a GOAT candidate.

GOAT is subjective, anyway. Nobody can actually officially become the GOAT.