For all the pushers out there...do you guys ever feel guilty?

Thepowerofchoice · 07-30-2012, 03:32 PM

I'm a former "pusher". Today I was playing against very soilid 4.0 base liner. He hits very loopy forehands top spin...almost like moonball with a lot of actions. I knew I needed to step in and take the ball early but found myself getting tight and gave away many short balls...

So I decided to give him no pace, slicing forehands and backhands. I completely through him off his game and he was running like a mad man. I won.

I was not completely pushing because I finished many points at the net and had a couple of winners from the baseline.

Happy ending but I'm feeling kinda guilty LOL

LeeD · 07-30-2012, 03:43 PM

They call it junkballing.
Pros Gilbert, Mecir, Rochus did it to some effect.

user92626 · 07-30-2012, 04:13 PM

So, where in the court did you slice your fh and bh to?

A 4.0 cannot run there and hit (good) groundstrokes back?

(to be honest i'm quite confused by all this rating and "styles")

DeShaun · 07-30-2012, 04:45 PM

I've never been able to junk ball an opponent as a means of reversing momentum when he was getting the better of me and my normal stuff. On the other hand, many times in matches I realized I had been overcooking my shots or donating too many points, and in those cases I quickly took pace off of my shots, resolving to see if I could simply outlast the opponent. Sometimes depriving an opponent of pace fetches me the win, but other times it does not. Usually if I am having trouble executing an attacking game--say, my timing is off, or my fitness is not where it should be--and so, I change my strategy mid-match in favor of a consistency game, yet neither of these approaches is bearing any fruit against the opponent, then my trying to junk-ball him usually will not work either--it seems I lack enough tricky spin shots for this style of play to pan out successfully.

dhawk · 07-30-2012, 04:48 PM

everyone plays how they play- usually when someone calls another a pusher its because they just lost to one! push on

LeeD · 07-30-2012, 04:49 PM

Now that would depend on WHO you played, wouldn't it? One person's experience might not be enough to get a qualified analysis of whether junkball can or cannot work.
It works sometimes, against some players, and not othter times, against other players.
But if you keep executing a losing game, you probably will not go to the next round.

sundaypunch · 07-30-2012, 05:25 PM

Good for you. You had a strategy that wasn't working and changed to one that did. Nothing wrong with exploiting someone's weakness.

federer_FREAK · 07-30-2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by user92626

So, where in the court did you slice your fh and bh to?

A 4.0 cannot run there and hit (good) groundstrokes back?

(to be honest i'm quite confused by all this rating and "styles")

Yea I think a lot of people on this forum overrate their ratings.

TennisDawg · 07-30-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thepowerofchoice

I'm a former "pusher". Today I was playing against very soilid 4.0 base liner. He hits very loopy forehands top spin...almost like moonball with a lot of actions. I knew I needed to step in and take the ball early but found myself getting tight and gave away many short balls...

So I decided to give him no pace, slicing forehands and backhands. I completely through him off his game and he was running like a mad man. I won.

I was not completely pushing because I finished many points at the net and had a couple of winners from the baseline.

Happy ending but I'm feeling kinda guilty LOL

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

kcmiser · 07-30-2012, 06:20 PM

Not just no, but hell, no.

I probably play much like your opponent. Big loopy topspin. It's not so much an intentional tactic as just how I hit. Always have.

When I was maybe ten years old, my dad (who played minor college tennis) told me that consistency and depth beats just about everyone. For all the talk about how the game has changed, for the weekend player, that's still true.

TeflonTom · 07-30-2012, 06:53 PM

i only feel guilty when i push outta laziness

eg i was playin lower-level mixed as a favour 2 a friend the other night. initially i planned 2 use it as an opportunity 2 work on groovin a few aspects o my game that have been givin me problems - mostly my twist serve n my high topspin bh

however halfway thru the first set i got lazy n just ended up pushin most of the match. rollin in topspin serves, slicin n dicin on both sides, loopy lobs. when ur playin ppl worse than u its easy 2 just hit junk n put the ball in, wait 4 the errors

i didnt feel guilty about what i did 2 the other team - after all, its their fault if they cant beat pushing, not mine. but i felt guilty cos i took the easy option n didnt give myself a proper workout. in terms o improvin my own game it was a wasted 90mins

mightyrick · 07-30-2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thepowerofchoice

So I decided to give him no pace, slicing forehands and backhands. I completely through him off his game and he was running like a mad man. I won.

I was not completely pushing because I finished many points at the net and had a couple of winners from the baseline.

Happy ending but I'm feeling kinda guilty LOL

You weren't pushing. Deciding to give no pace to someone who can't generate their own pace can be a very successful strategy. You should try it against a real pusher sometime... you'd be surprised at the results sometimes.

The opponents I love are the ones who can't handle no-pace serves. You can serve at these people 100mph... and they get it back. If you give them a 45mph slice, they misfire the return all over the place. It's amazing.

Wuppy · 07-30-2012, 09:03 PM

I'm a guy who can't handle no-pace balls. When I play women of my same rating I often lose. Running full-speed toward the net and trying to hit a touch shot is not easy for low-level players like myself. And when you're playing women or junkballers, half the time you're forced to hit shots at or in front of the service line.

I'm pretty disheartened with 3.5 play actually. I'm taking a break from anything other than casual hitting with friends because every time I'm in a tourn I get some a-hole who junkballs and moonballs me. When my game is off, I end up losing by hitting everything out or into the net, and when it's on I end up winning but feel like a loser because I just spent an hour or two returning moonballs and junk slices. My game didn't improve, I had no fun, and I didn't even get any money for the win. Lose-lose-lose.

I have realized that junkballers and low-level players don't work you side-to-side, they work you back and forth. They'll hit a long moonball to the baseline, then a short slice to the service line. Over and over and over. I'm constantly running to and from the net and there's so little pace on the ball that they're hard for me to handle. And I refuse to sit there and match their weak shots with weak shots of my own. That's not why I'm out there and it's no fun.

So I don't know if you should feel "guilty," but just understand that guys who hit decent topspin baseline shots get sick of playing junky moonballers and wind up only playing with other "decent" players. If you want to junkball, feel free, but realize that you'll never get any better and the guys who are there to get better will not want to play with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyrick

The opponents I love are the ones who can't handle no-pace serves.

Why do I get the feeling your fastest serve is about 45 mph?

user92626 · 07-30-2012, 09:24 PM

Wuppy,

How you describe yourself is interesting though. I guess I'm a different kind of baseline player. I enjoy rallying hard from the baseline but ultimately work to get slow and short (closer to net) balls which I can put away with a very high percent win. That's the fruit of my hard rallying labor. I don't understand why you guys have trouble running to slow balls or hitting passing shots that are close to the net. Much of the point of tennis is running faster than your opponent does, and getting to hit shots close to the net which is easier than anything else.

Wuppy · 07-30-2012, 09:27 PM

I don't have trouble getting to them, but for some reason I do have trouble hitting decent shots against them. Of course I've only been playing competitively for about 4 months, so that may change. But in the meantime I'm playing against people who have better strokes than I do, not just the ability to hit tons of crappy shots better than I do

I'm looking forward to a ball machine called "The Pusher" which I'll write about in another thread.

Here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=434289

sandiegoman · 07-30-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thepowerofchoice

I'm a former "pusher". Today I was playing against very soilid 4.0 base liner. He hits very loopy forehands top spin...almost like moonball with a lot of actions. I knew I needed to step in and take the ball early but found myself getting tight and gave away many short balls...

So I decided to give him no pace, slicing forehands and backhands. I completely through him off his game and he was running like a mad man. I won.

I was not completely pushing because I finished many points at the net and had a couple of winners from the baseline.

Happy ending but I'm feeling kinda guilty LOL

why did you do it? How could you push?

Mick · 07-30-2012, 09:40 PM

i once used Nadal's strategy of hitting all the shots to this guy's backhand and bageled him. He was mighty upset that I did that but that's his problem

TeflonTom · 07-30-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuppy

I don't have trouble getting to them, but for some reason I do have trouble hitting decent shots against them. Of course I've only been playing competitively for about 4 months, so that may change. But in the meantime I'm playing against people who have better strokes than I do, not just the ability to hit tons of crappy shots better than I do

I'm looking forward to a ball machine called "The Pusher" which I'll write about in another thread.

Here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=434289

i guess running away from ur weaknesses is one option

user92626 · 07-30-2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

for some reason I do have trouble hitting decent shots against them.

Dude wuppy,

Don't you find it annoying for you not to understand something? Especially when it's something that's right in front of your eyes.

Just take a bucket of balls out to a court by yourself. Toss a handful of balls to every corner of your court and hit them to every corner of the other court. They're not rocket science.

Wuppy · 07-30-2012, 10:17 PM

The way they hit I'd be better off taking a small weak 7 year old girl out on the court and letting her feed them to me.

07-30-2012, 03:32 PM	#1
Thepowerofchoice Semi-Pro Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 715	For all the pushers out there...do you guys ever feel guilty? I'm a former "pusher". Today I was playing against very soilid 4.0 base liner. He hits very loopy forehands top spin...almost like moonball with a lot of actions. I knew I needed to step in and take the ball early but found myself getting tight and gave away many short balls... So I decided to give him no pace, slicing forehands and backhands. I completely through him off his game and he was running like a mad man. I won. I was not completely pushing because I finished many points at the net and had a couple of winners from the baseline. Happy ending but I'm feeling kinda guilty LOL __________________ Don't do your best, Do whatever It Takes

07-30-2012, 04:45 PM	#4
DeShaun Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,623	I've never been able to junk ball an opponent as a means of reversing momentum when he was getting the better of me and my normal stuff. On the other hand, many times in matches I realized I had been overcooking my shots or donating too many points, and in those cases I quickly took pace off of my shots, resolving to see if I could simply outlast the opponent. Sometimes depriving an opponent of pace fetches me the win, but other times it does not. Usually if I am having trouble executing an attacking game--say, my timing is off, or my fitness is not where it should be--and so, I change my strategy mid-match in favor of a consistency game, yet neither of these approaches is bearing any fruit against the opponent, then my trying to junk-ball him usually will not work either--it seems I lack enough tricky spin shots for this style of play to pan out successfully. __________________ wilson graphite matrix (red/black) : 58# forten nylon : bare leather grip

07-30-2012, 04:48 PM	#5
dhawk New User Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1	pusher what everyone plays how they play- usually when someone calls another a pusher its because they just lost to one! push on

07-30-2012, 06:53 PM	#11
TeflonTom Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 922	i only feel guilty when i push outta laziness eg i was playin lower-level mixed as a favour 2 a friend the other night. initially i planned 2 use it as an opportunity 2 work on groovin a few aspects o my game that have been givin me problems - mostly my twist serve n my high topspin bh however halfway thru the first set i got lazy n just ended up pushin most of the match. rollin in topspin serves, slicin n dicin on both sides, loopy lobs. when ur playin ppl worse than u its easy 2 just hit junk n put the ball in, wait 4 the errors i didnt feel guilty about what i did 2 the other team - after all, its their fault if they cant beat pushing, not mine. but i felt guilty cos i took the easy option n didnt give myself a proper workout. in terms o improvin my own game it was a wasted 90mins Last edited by TeflonTom : 07-30-2012 at 06:57 PM.

07-30-2012, 09:27 PM	#15
Wuppy Professional Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 858	I don't have trouble getting to them, but for some reason I do have trouble hitting decent shots against them. Of course I've only been playing competitively for about 4 months, so that may change. But in the meantime I'm playing against people who have better strokes than I do, not just the ability to hit tons of crappy shots better than I do I'm looking forward to a ball machine called "The Pusher" which I'll write about in another thread. Here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=434289 __________________ "The Pusher" - my new ball machine idea. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=6764523&postcount=1 Last edited by Wuppy : 07-30-2012 at 09:35 PM.