Armstrong drops fight against doping charges

[El Diablo]

Innuendo is scurrilous, repeating it is no better. Making the suggestion that Armstrong is disliked by pharma "in view of the known behavior of those industries" is indeed intellectual sociopathy. If one has no idea how an industry regards an individual, one should merely shut up. Attributing qualities to persons or groups without actual information is how demagogues and Fuhrers function.

[fundrazer]

For everyone claiming that USADA has no evidence, you might be interested in reading this article from CyclingNews.

"USADA in possession of positive Armstrong samples"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/repo...strong-samples

[adventure]

Aside from benhur trolling desperately, this thread is finished. Lance has already admitted to doping ie he doesn't deny doping, only denying that he gained an "unfair advantage" by doping.

[West Coast Ace]

Originally Posted by adventure

Aside from benhur trolling desperately, this thread is finished. Lance has already admitted to doping ie he doesn't deny doping, only denying that he gained an "unfair advantage" by doping.

I agree. I feel bad for the people who wanted to believe. But at this point they just look like suckers.

PS - you're 'McGraw Hill conspiracy' line was awesome!

[adventure]

I don't really blame the people who believe/d in Lance. It's not so much the person, but the idea of an invincible sports hero, and later a selfless health guru that people wanted to believe in.

It just shows you how twisted armstrong really is--took many millions of people for a ride, no pun intended.

Believe in yourself, mate.

[Sentinel]

Don't know if this has been posted.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

[NLBwell]

I never believed he didn't dope, any more than I believe Arnold Swartzenegger didn't.
What is unfair, however, is that everyone knew he did, everyone knew everyone else did - even the officials, as stated in the article above, yet he was set up to be a target years later. If they take away his titles, who would they give them to that didn't dope? It wasn't an unfair advantage.

They need to get much more accurate testing and start fresh - not go back to the past and pick on specific individuals.
Maybe even go to doping and non-doping divisions, where the non-doping criteria are so tight that it would be possible to test positive without doping. (of course, knowing this, it wouldn't be a lifetime ban, but some suspension time as a punishment)

[fps]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

I never believed he didn't dope, any more than I believe Arnold Swartzenegger didn't.
What is unfair, however, is that everyone knew he did, everyone knew everyone else did - even the officials, as stated in the article above, yet he was set up to be a target years later. If they take away his titles, who would they give them to that didn't dope? It wasn't an unfair advantage.

They need to get much more accurate testing and start fresh - not go back to the past and pick on specific individuals.
Maybe even go to doping and non-doping divisions, where the non-doping criteria are so tight that it would be possible to test positive without doping. (of course, knowing this, it wouldn't be a lifetime ban, but some suspension time as a punishment)

They should put an asterisk next to his name. And it IS important to go back to the past and pick on individuals, especially if they are legends of the sport and have been found to be cheats. The blood is held for several years I believe, for the reason that when the testers finally catch up, they can then check whether the cyclists were taking what they finally know they may have been taking.

[adventure]

RUBBISH. He DID receive an unfair advantage. Read the article linked directly above. Armstrong's doping was YEARS ahead of his teammates.' He was able to both cycle more efficiently and more effectively evade testing.

Also, his claim that he passed "500" tests is completely unsubstantiated. It's a number he pulled out of his a--, yet people still believe him.

I agree that in principle that everyone should be held accountable but with over $100 million in prizes from cycling and endorsements as a result of his cheating, it stands to reason that Lance will be held to the higher standard.

Originally Posted by NLBwell

I never believed he didn't dope, any more than I believe Arnold Swartzenegger didn't.
What is unfair, however, is that everyone knew he did, everyone knew everyone else did - even the officials, as stated in the article above, yet he was set up to be a target years later. If they take away his titles, who would they give them to that didn't dope? It wasn't an unfair advantage.

They need to get much more accurate testing and start fresh - not go back to the past and pick on specific individuals.
Maybe even go to doping and non-doping divisions, where the non-doping criteria are so tight that it would be possible to test positive without doping. (of course, knowing this, it wouldn't be a lifetime ban, but some suspension time as a punishment)

[FastFreddy]

Lance is a DOPE!!

[JoelDali]

Livestrong

LoL

[NonP]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

I never believed he didn't dope, any more than I believe Arnold Swartzenegger didn't.
What is unfair, however, is that everyone knew he did, everyone knew everyone else did - even the officials, as stated in the article above, yet he was set up to be a target years later. If they take away his titles, who would they give them to that didn't dope? It wasn't an unfair advantage.

They need to get much more accurate testing and start fresh - not go back to the past and pick on specific individuals.
Maybe even go to doping and non-doping divisions, where the non-doping criteria are so tight that it would be possible to test positive without doping. (of course, knowing this, it wouldn't be a lifetime ban, but some suspension time as a punishment)

Yes, that's really the big issue here. People are missing the forest for the trees when they keep the spotlight on Armstrong while failing to see or address the flaws of PED testing or the shady tactics of the USADA.

But you're a bit off when you say unequivocally that Armstrong didn't gain an unfair advantage. No outsider can claim to know (yet) the real answer, despite what the gullible know-nothings think they know.

[adventure]

Originally Posted by NonP

Yes, that's really the big issue here. People are missing the forest for the trees when they keep the spotlight on Armstrong while failing to see or address the flaws of PED testing or the shady tactics of the USADA.

But you're a bit off when you say unequivocally that Armstrong didn't gain an unfair advantage. No outsider can claim to know (yet) the real answer, despite what the gullible know-nothings think they know.

Take a look at the article linked. Hamilton, Armstrong's teammate, fully documents the advanced cheating techniques and PED's Lance took. Hamilton was in the know as much as anyone. 9 other teammates were and are prepared to testify against Lance as well.

I have no issue with Lance being targeted. He took cheating to it's absolute state of the art limit. He also benefited disproportionately as well, with a career income of over $100 million, based completely on his supposed superiority as a cyclist (more like his superiority in getting designer PED's).

Lance got off easy. He didn't have to return a dime of earnings from the tours he won by cheating. In principle, he should be forced to return ALL prize winnings, with interest.

[jonnythan]

Originally Posted by adventure

Take a look at the article linked. Hamilton, Armstrong's teammate, fully documents the advanced cheating techniques and PED's Lance took. Hamilton was in the know as much as anyone. 9 other teammates were and are prepared to testify against Lance as well.

I have no issue with Lance being targeted. He took cheating to it's absolute state of the art limit. He also benefited disproportionately as well, with a career income of over $100 million, based completely on his supposed superiority as a cyclist (more like his superiority in getting designer PED's).

Lance got off easy. He didn't have to return a dime of earnings from the tours he won by cheating. In principle, he should be forced to return ALL prize winnings, with interest.

Tyler Hamilton actually did fail multiple drug tests. And was apparently fired from the US Postal team back in the day. And on top of that he's apparently releasing a book about the whole thing.

Not exactly an unbiased source. Tyler has every reason in the world to make **** up about Lance.

[adventure]

And he faces defamation and libel charges if he made up ****. Interesting that 9 more of Lance's teammates who would also face similar legal charges, including jail time and a mountain of legal fees are all lined up to testify against him.

As is Lance's masseuse. These people have everything to lose and nothing to gain in the face of Lance's hundreds of millions of dollars and legal team.

Plus, you're forgetting something very simple. Lance no longer denies doping. He only denies an "unfair advantage" from doping. And that's also a lie, as Tyler and every last one of Lance's teammates has pointed out.

[jonnythan]

Originally Posted by adventure

And he faces defamation and libel charges if he made up ****. Interesting that 9 more of Lance's teammates who would also face similar legal charges, including jail time and a mountain of legal fees are all lined up to testify against him.

As is Lance's masseuse. These people have everything to lose and nothing to gain in the face of Lance's hundreds of millions of dollars and legal team.

Plus, you're forgetting something very simple. Lance no longer denies doping. He only denies an "unfair advantage" from doping. And that's also a lie, as Tyler and every last one of Lance's teammates has pointed out.

There's no way Lance or any other cyclist could ever prove that statements like that are lies. The chances of winning a defamation lawsuit against Hamilton are pretty much zero.

The risk/reward to making it all up are heavily, heavily in favor of reward for Hamilton to make it up (assuming he is making it up).

These people have nothing to lose. Nothing at all. And a lot to gain. Hamilton has already failed drug tests and wants to drum up publicity for a book. What's the masseuse got to lose?

[FastFreddy]

Lance is a cheater, he will be in HELL!

[fundrazer]

Glad someone is continuing the fight against Pharmstrong in this thread. The thing some of the defenders don't understand, so many former Postal riders have come out and stated that they were dopers. Many of these same riders also have NEVER tested positive. Their doping programs are way ahead of the drug tests. At the same time you have guys like Johan Bruyneel claiming that no doping was going on with the team...

Also, I actually just picked up Tyler's book today. First book I'll be reading in a long while.

[adventure]

Originally Posted by jonnythan

There's no way Lance or any other cyclist could ever prove that statements like that are lies. The chances of winning a defamation lawsuit against Hamilton are pretty much zero.

The risk/reward to making it all up are heavily, heavily in favor of reward for Hamilton to make it up (assuming he is making it up).

These people have nothing to lose. Nothing at all. And a lot to gain. Hamilton has already failed drug tests and wants to drum up publicity for a book. What's the masseuse got to lose?

I agree completely. Lance CAN'T prove his teammates are lying. Because they are telling the truth. And yes, his chances of winning a lawsuit are zero, again, because his teammates are telling the truth.

Lance's masseuse was terrified and harassed by Lance's legal team for years on end. She knew she would be facing this type of harassment but came forward anyway.

Tyler will get paid a standard rate by his publisher. But please, Lance himself has acknowledged he is a doper. Even Lance is not as delusional as you are.

And yes, Santa Claus is fake.

[Avles]

Originally Posted by Jonnythan

The risk/reward to making it all up are heavily, heavily in favor of reward for Hamilton to make it up (assuming he is making it up).

These people have nothing to lose. Nothing at all. And a lot to gain. Hamilton has already failed drug tests and wants to drum up publicity for a book. What's the masseuse got to lose?

But it's not just Hamilton. It's not just the masseuse. Like the Outside article says:

In the book’s preface, which details its genesis, Coyle not so subtly addresses Armstrong’s supporters by pointing out that, while the story is told through Hamilton, nine former Postal teammates agreed to cooperate with him on The Secret Race, verifying and corroborating Hamilton’s account. Nine teammates. That fact is the first punch thrown at Armstrong’s supporters—and it might be the most damaging one. Next Wednesday, when The Secret Race comes out, backers will probably make the familiar claim that Hamilton is a disgruntled, bitter ex-rival who got popped for doping and is now looking to cash in. But that doesn’t explain why nine former teammates agreed to cooperate.

So there are 9 sources who corroborate and verify Hamilton's account.

Seriously Jonnythan. You actually believe that all 9 of these sources are just making stuff up? You think they've all gotten together to lynch Armstrong because... well, why exactly? Are they going to be splitting that book deal money?

C'mon... Plausible deniability only goes so far.