What do you do with your doubles partners that always serve wide?

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Maui19

I have had a ton of success serving decent kick serves to receivers' backhands. Obviously this means a lot of wide serves to the ad court when facing righties. My partners don't mind because they get a lot of putaways at the net.

I will sometimes stand in the deuce alley to serve. I do this when I have a returner who is struggling with spin serves (dead give-away: giant racket). I position wide, and they usually mirror my position. If I slice wide, they are off the court. If they don't have a monster FH, I can volley the next ball up the middle.

Even better is to slice it up the T from the deuce doubles alley. The receiver is standing wide, anticipating the FH. If I slice it up the T, it hooks into their BH, and a lot of people struggle with that.

I tend to do stuff like this if my partner has stone hands at net. In that case, I would prefer to keep her out of the points unless there is a floater, and serving wide does that.

[LeeD]

In both the above cases, NEITHER of you serve ALL your serves wide.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by LeeD

In both the above cases, NEITHER of you serve ALL your serves wide.

Yeah, I guess I was reacting to the bit about people who serve from the doubles alley.

When my partner is serving, I make a mental note of their position before each serve. Some people mix it up, and that can cause me to let a ball go through, unaware that they were serving from the doubles alley.

Also, if I see my partner serving from the doubles alley, I will probably move back off the net. A lot of people like to lob the net player and make the server run the full distance of the baseline to catch up with the ball. Since I probably cannot poach if she is standing really wide/serving wide, might as well make myself useful by discouraging the lob.

[LeeD]

Very good idea, thanks.
As you know, I"m too lazy to look back at my server.
Good strategy!

[tennis_ocd]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Also, if I see my partner serving from the doubles alley, I will probably move back off the net. A lot of people like to lob the net player and make the server run the full distance of the baseline to catch up with the ball. Since I probably cannot poach if she is standing really wide/serving wide, might as well make myself useful by discouraging the lob.

this is what makes doubles fun. When I see the server out wide and the net person back off the entire center appears to open up like the red sea.

[tennis_ocd]

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

Serving wide is generally better I thought?

If you serve the T, the net person has more court to cover.

Nothing in doubles is more exciting than seeing your partner hit deep, hard t-serves.

[AR15]

When you serve from the ally, even your serve down the tee is coming at such an angle that it's that it's likely to be returned the opposite direction it came from, thus making a difficult poach for a net man (unless pre-planned by partners).

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by tennis_ocd

this is what makes doubles fun. When I see the server out wide and the net person back off the entire center appears to open up like the red sea.

Totally agree.

But if your partner is going to serve from the alley, ya gotta decide what you'll concede because you cannot cover everything.

In my world (4.0 and seniors), very few partners can run from the deuce doubles alley over to their BH side to reach even a poor lob, let alone play a decent reply. Better for me to be off the net and make the returner go crosscourt, where my partner can hopefully reach the center ball with a couple of steps.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by AR15

On my men's 3.5 team, and especially on the mixed teams I play on, I have several partners that serve from the allies, and serve wide on almost every serve. As the net guy, I feel like I'm floundering around attempting to make something happen (poach) under difficult circumstances. Most serve returns are going back extreme cross court, and if I try to get a head start on them, the returner goes up the line.

What do you do when this happens?

This is what you do. this is lower level than what i am used to. but ask your partner to at least try to learn the up the middle serve. If not, just stand out wide, almost on the doubles alley to protect the up the line return. That is only thing you can do.

[corbind]

Originally Posted by AR15

On my men's 3.5 team, and especially on the mixed teams I play on, I have several partners that serve from the allies, and serve wide on almost every serve. As the net guy, I feel like I'm floundering around attempting to make something happen (poach) under difficult circumstances. Most serve returns are going back extreme cross court, and if I try to get a head start on them, the returner goes up the line. What do you do when this happens?

You are at the mercy of your partner since serving from the alley wide to both sides creates a nightmare for the net person. The server has effectively taken his partner out of the equation. Why?

-- The extreme wide angle forces the server's net man move even farther wide to cover the now wide-open alley.

-- If the net man decides to naturally cheat and move toward the center anticipating the usual steep CC return he's gambling. But as soon as he moves the returner will just plant the ball DTL which is now not a narrow alley but a large triangle. The server is still on the other side of the world and will never get to a DTL shot.

Although I'm quite aggressive at the net, I'm not willing to gamble on this one. If my partner is standing in the alley to serve and always serves wide, in my mind I'm wondering WTH they're thinking. But I know I'll get just one gamble poach and after that I'll be stuck like glue covering that now huge "DTL" triangle he's created.

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

Serving wide is generally better I thought? If you serve the T, the net person has more court to cover.

If you serve wide on either side the angles are actually smaller. Most of the time someone blasts a winner DTL on me is when my partner serves the middle. I rarely get someone burning me DTL on a good serve out side.

My eyes got BIG when I read this! Get out a sheet of paper and draw a doubles tennis court. Mark where the server, returner, opponent net man and your partner is standing. The returner will strike the ball from a very wide position thereby making the CC open position smaller and DTL becomes a huge football field compared to normal.

Erase that. Now draw when a server is standing near the hash mark/middle of court and serves down the T. Draw where the returner will contact the ball about near the hash mark on the other side. Draw the angle from there directly through the opponent net man and end the line at the doubles sideline.

Notice the line ends about at the service line? Very, very difficult to pass someone DTL when the ball is served from the middle of the court down the T (unless the net man has totally cheated and moved to the center of the court opening up the wide return).

Originally Posted by LeeD

Winning tennis is serving mostly up the T, then out wide when the returner cheats that way. That involves both players into the point.

Spoken like a champ...

Originally Posted by tennis_ocd

Nothing in doubles is more exciting than seeing your partner hit deep, hard t-serves.

Another one who is in-the-know...

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by AR15

When you serve from the ally, even your serve down the tee is coming at such an angle that it's that it's likely to be returned the opposite direction it came from, thus making a difficult poach for a net man (unless pre-planned by partners).

Actually, I am not sure about this. Or perhaps I should say there are other things to consider.

Say I stand wide in the deuce alley and serve up the T with slice. That ball is hooking into the receiver's BH. The easier return is to take that ball back to the server, and most deuce receivers are practiced with this shot.

Changing direction on that ball is crazy hard, and few people can do anything more than steer it. For the receiver, it is low percentage.

I would say that having the server serve from the deuce alley and up the T while the net player mirrors the ball is a good way to make the returner burst into tears.

[PrinceMoron]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

This is what you do. this is lower level than what i am used to. but ask your partner to at least try to learn the up the middle serve. If not, just stand out wide, almost on the doubles alley to protect the up the line return. That is only thing you can do.

Watch Nalbandian cream the ball down the line off any serve to the ad court, and you will soon forget about serving out wide.

[spot]

Originally Posted by PrinceMoron

Watch Nalbandian cream the ball down the line off any serve to the ad court, and you will soon forget about serving out wide.

If I am playing against Nalbandian then maybe I would readjust my strategy. But for my money up until the 4.5 level I'd greatly prefer having my partners serve out wide on the ad side until our opponent shows that they can attack off of that side.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by spot

If I am playing against Nalbandian then maybe I would readjust my strategy. But for my money up until the 4.5 level I'd greatly prefer having my partners serve out wide on the ad side until our opponent shows that they can attack off of that side.

oh, i thought op was talking about serving out wide on deuce court into the forehand side ?

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

shoot them

/end thread

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by corbind

My eyes got BIG when I read this! Get out a sheet of paper and draw a doubles tennis court. Mark where the server, returner, opponent net man and your partner is standing. The returner will strike the ball from a very wide position thereby making the CC open position smaller and DTL becomes a huge football field compared to normal.

Erase that. Now draw when a server is standing near the hash mark/middle of court and serves down the T. Draw where the returner will contact the ball about near the hash mark on the other side. Draw the angle from there directly through the opponent net man and end the line at the doubles sideline.

Notice the line ends about at the service line? Very, very difficult to pass someone DTL when the ball is served from the middle of the court down the T (unless the net man has totally cheated and moved to the center of the court opening up the wide return).

I know you think your "theory" is solid, but tennis is not a game of drawing lines on a paper.

1) Serving down the T" on either side with a net person poaching leaves 1/2 to 1/3 of the court open.

2) When pros serve the "T" they are usually playing "I" formation. Why? Because it exposes a potential weakness to the opponent, while the movement of the serving net player is predetermined.

3) Serving down the "T" works at low levels because their net players hardly move, returns are going about 40 mph, shoulder level.


Since people dont believe me, I would suggest watching a professional doubles match. They rarely serve down the "T" unless playing I-formation, and most of the times when they get burned DTL on a serve return, its because of a serve down the middle and not one out wide.

[spot]

NTRPolice- are you serious? Most serves in pro doubles go down the middle or to the body to cut down on the angle of return that is possible. You can't honestly think that most serves go out wide in Pro Doubles...

I guess if anyone actually cares there will be lots of pro doubles on this afternoon in the US open weather permitting.

[spot]

NTRPolice- here is an 'expedited' highlight of the 2010 Aussie Open final so you can watch for yourself and see how few serves they do out wide. This wasn't some sort of cherry pick- it was the first one I found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C-pEt8d9ts

If you think that simply a bad example then lets see an example from you.

[Cindysphinx]

NTRPPolice,

Read "The Art of Doubles" or pretty much any book on doubles strategy.

Most people can take their FH DTL than can change direction to take the BH to the alley.

[tennisplayer1993]

i throw my racket at their face