FYB's Singles Playbook

[maleyoyo]

Originally Posted by spot

Doubles has dramatically more strategy. I wouldn't make fun of someone for paying money for videos on doubles strategy. But singles strategy at 4.0 and lower? Ridiculous.

Do you play competitive singles in a 4.0 men’s league? If not, it’s safe to say that you don’t know what you are talking about.

[theblueark]

Originally Posted by anubis

I agree with wuppy. Yes, we sometimes hit winners. Yes, we sometimes construct points. But the far greater majority of the time, we're just hitting the ball waiting for our opponent to screw up... when you're level 3.0 that is.

So say out of 10 points, I win 9 through waiting for my opponent to screw up. And that 1 point out of 10, I win through using a strategy I formulated for a particular opponent.

I'd take that 1 point, why not.

[Nostradamus]

Sometimes, you hit this bad patch and lose like 10-12 points in a row. What is the best way to break out of that patch ? What have you guys tried that worked ? and what is your mental approach ?

[spot]

Originally Posted by maleyoyo

Do you play competitive singles in a 4.0 men’s league? If not, it’s safe to say that you don’t know what you are talking about.

I do. I guess to me there is a difference between strategy and tactics. To me S&V is a tactic. Its a tactic to serve everything to the backhand. Its a tactic to keep the ball low. These are simply about shot selection and then it is simply about execution. But to me the tactic selection is entirely dependent on the shots you possess and the shots your opponent possesses. Watching the strategy that the pros use couldn't be more irrelevant.

For a Pro they can work on kicking a serve down the middle to the backhand and then covering the angles that the returner has. But thats a Pro with a world class kick serve. Serving to a guy with a world class backhand with world class topspin. The server has a world class overhead and world class volleys. That couldn't be any more irrelevant to what a 4.0 needs to expect when he puts his kick serve down the middle to a rec players backhand.

I compare that to doubles where I think there is exponentially more strategy. There you can talk about lobbing the net player to get into a switched formation. Then having your net player plan to poach across since the next ball almost always goes back up the line or is a lob. Singles to me is about just having a simple plan and executing it.

[Cindysphinx]

The singles players can correct me if I'm wrong, but something Spot said rang true with me.

In doubles, it is much more possible to use positioning tactics/strategy to your advantage than in singles.

By that I mean the mere fact of positioning correctly in doubles will win you points (in the form of errors and enhanced court coverage). In singles, positioning correctly will not do that much for you.

I would say that the way most rec players use positioning in singles to win points is through learning to take the net when your opponent is in trouble. That's not a singles strategy, however, as it is equally applicable in doubles.

So I guess I'd say that I agree with Spot, pretty much.

[theblueark]

How much learning strategy will help you depends on how far behind in your knowledge you are.

I guess everyone has a different definition of "strategy". For me, "strategy" is anything that isn't "technique".

I bought these courses to pick up here and there certain ideas that occasionally win me points. As you say, most of the points are won through consistency. Even then, consistency can be manipulated by having superior strategy.

Say I have both the moonball and the slice in my arsenal. And I figured out that this guy I'm playing loves to take giant swings when he sees the moonballs but unfortunately hits all of them long. My "strategy" would then be to moonball the whole match. This increases my opponent's inconsistency.

Seems pretty obvious? Maybe to someone experienced. But I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there who have never taken the time to think of something so simple on their own. Tennis Ninja and Singles Domination both teach the students to think and observe more and find the weakness to exploit.

Singles Playbook doesn't though, which is maybe why Ian didn't call it a "strategy" course. He pitches it as a course to learn "plays". Which in my own experience after going through the course, found as not so useful. But who knows, maybe some of his students tried out one of the "plays" and found that it comes so naturally and works so perfectly for him.

[Cindysphinx]

It would be fun to have a thread to see what "plays" people at various levels believe they can execute well enough to win points.

One of my favorite "plays" is the topspin moonball, preferably over someone's BH, as an approach shot. For instance.

[slice bh compliment]

^ Cool idea^

Me: Former good player. Still decent in his 40s. My favorite "plays":
1. an ace either to the T or out wide.
2. Wide serve then open court volley.
3. Slice my Bh short to the other guy's BH. Whip the next shot to the open court.
4. High-kicking topper up above his BH shoulder. Take the floater out of the air with a swing volley. The sneak is what the academy coaches call it these days.
4 b. Or just approach down the line and volley short cross court.
5. Earn the right to approach, but dropshot instead. Then lob. Then when they spank a tweener right at me, I drop volley it. I love this. This ought to be number 1. Not sure why I listed it as number 5. Probably because it does not happen very often.
6. Go in, get lobbed. Crack an overhead smash to the open court. He gets it back. I hit another overhead.
7. Go in. Get lobbed. Go back and his a Bucharest Backfire into his feet. Pas him on the next shot.
8. He is at net, thinking I will pass. I hit a one-handed BH topspin lob instead.
9. Tall opponent with good wingspan. I have trouble passing him so I either dip or go right at him, with designs on a 2 shot pass.
10. Hit deep down the middle a lot and bore the other guy while limiting his options. Kidding. This is my least favorite play. I fear this has become a huge part of tennis, though.

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by theblueark

How much learning strategy will help you depends on how far behind in your knowledge you are.

I guess everyone has a different definition of "strategy". For me, "strategy" is anything that isn't "technique".

I bought these courses to pick up here and there certain ideas that occasionally win me points. As you say, most of the points are won through consistency. Even then, consistency can be manipulated by having superior strategy.

Say I have both the moonball and the slice in my arsenal. And I figured out that this guy I'm playing loves to take giant swings when he sees the moonballs but unfortunately hits all of them long. My "strategy" would then be to moonball the whole match. This increases my opponent's inconsistency.

Seems pretty obvious? Maybe to someone experienced. But I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there who have never taken the time to think of something so simple on their own. Tennis Ninja and Singles Domination both teach the students to think and observe more and find the weakness to exploit.

Singles Playbook doesn't though, which is maybe why WILL didn't call it a "strategy" course. He pitches it as a course to learn "plays". Which in my own experience after going through the course, found as not so useful. But who knows, maybe some of his students tried out one of the "plays" and found that it comes so naturally and works so perfectly for him.

Edited / bolded your comment because Singles Playbook is an FYB product. Not Ian / Essential Tennis.

So I've refined the "play" concept a lot in the last year. Interested to hear what ya'll think about what I've come up with. There are three components -

1. Factors
2. The Pressure Stack
3. The Death Grip

"Factors" are both the things you're trying to hurt your opponent with and the things you have to manage or handle during a point. The six main Factors we've identified are -

1. Consistency
2. Power... both more power and less power (because taking power away can be very effective... think a pusher)
3. Strike Zone. Low, medium, and high.
4. Trajectory
5. Time
6. Hitting while moving, both horizontally and vertically

To restate, you use one or several of these to hurt your opponent. But you also have to be aware of your ability to handle them. Because you'll be better at some than others.

OK... so a play starts with the Pressure Stack. Think of the sequence of shots you hit during a play as a way to gradually ramp up the pressure on your opponent. You know what Factors you want to hurt your opponent with... each shot twists the knife a little bit more.

At a certain point you're going to get to the Death Grip. This is where you've applied so much pressure during the Pressure Stack that you should be in the driver's seat... you should win the point most of the time. In the Death Grip, you've probably got a short ball of some sort and your opponent is out of position.

Now...

Here's where many players run into trouble. During the Pressure Stack, which takes place around the baseline typically, you have more control over the Factors you have to manage. Take strike zone... you can control your strike zone to a large degree at the baseline. Most players like to hit around waist high.

But when you transition to the Death Grip that changes. Now you might be dealing with high balls. You might not be so good at those. So then you end up in the classic situation where you've got your opponent right where you want them but you let them off the hook. Think of all the Factors in this context. The trajectory of the ball is probably different, you have less time to operate because you're moving forward into the court, and you're probably moving while hitting.

So it's weird... during the Pressure Stack you have more control over HOW you hit the ball. You have more control over the Factors you have to manage... you can hit the ball at your favorite height, trajectory, etc. But during the Death Grip, even though you now have a clear advantage over your opponent, you've lost some control because you're essentially forced to hit the ball "a certain way," and you have much less control of the Factors you have to manage at that point.

Again, that leads to a ton of frustration for many recreational players.

So to go back to the whole plays / strategy discussion, I personally think the way you think about the game really matters. I suspect something as simple as the realization of why you struggle in the Death Grip phase is very valuable, because it gives you clarity and the confidence to make the right adjustments and improve.

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

It would be fun to have a thread to see what "plays" people at various levels believe they can execute well enough to win points.

One of my favorite "plays" is the topspin moonball, preferably over someone's BH, as an approach shot. For instance.

This is one of the most powerful shots you can hit at the recreational level. Works up to 5.0+ actually. I use it frequently. The "play" would include the sequence of shots (Pressure Stack) you hit to set up that opportunity and transition to the Death Grip.

Also, thanks for your earlier comments Cindy.

- W

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

Here's where many players run into trouble. During the Pressure Stack, which takes place around the baseline typically, you have more control over the Factors you have to manage. Take strike zone... you can control your strike zone to a large degree at the baseline. Most players like to hit around waist high.

But when you transition to the Death Grip that changes. Now you might be dealing with high balls. You might not be so good at those. So then you end up in the classic situation where you've got your opponent right where you want them but you let them off the hook. Think of all the Factors in this context. The trajectory of the ball is probably different, you have less time to operate because you're moving forward into the court, and you're probably moving while hitting.

Again, that leads to a ton of frustration for many recreational players.

Will, if you're still around . . .

I think your explanation of Power Stack and Death Grip etc. is very good. It explains very clearly why it is so hard for rec players at or around my level (3.5/4.0) can struggle so much to finish points on our own terms. The reason is because finishing a point often *isn't* on our own terms. So yes, it leads to much frustration.

The question I have is this: Now what?

I mean, we have diagnosed the problem beautifully. We have figured out that the mid-level rec player will struggle when they do not control the variables in the Death Grip.

In what way will strategy/tactics help the rec player who has made it to the Death Grip stage?

My answer would be "stroke mechanics/execution." By that I mean if you are weak with high balls close to the net, all the tactics/strategy in the world will not save you. You just have to learn to deal with those balls.

Is there another strategy-based answer that I am missing?

[Nostradamus]

Will, how do you prevent people from picking on your backhand all the time ? other than the obvious like run around it and hit a inside out forehand or serve and volley.

I used to serve and volley and attack the net all the time in singles and this really hid my weak backhand, but now i am older, i can't serve and volley effectively anymore all the time since i am slower and footwork isn't as good.
also it has become much harder to run around the backhand since i am older too.

Is there a way still to prevent my opponents from picking on your backhand all the time ?

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Will, if you're still around . . .

I think your explanation of Power Stack and Death Grip etc. is very good. It explains very clearly why it is so hard for rec players at or around my level (3.5/4.0) can struggle so much to finish points on our own terms. The reason is because finishing a point often *isn't* on our own terms. So yes, it leads to much frustration.

The question I have is this: Now what?

I mean, we have diagnosed the problem beautifully. We have figured out that the mid-level rec player will struggle when they do not control the variables in the Death Grip.

In what way will strategy/tactics help the rec player who has made it to the Death Grip stage?

My answer would be "stroke mechanics/execution." By that I mean if you are weak with high balls close to the net, all the tactics/strategy in the world will not save you. You just have to learn to deal with those balls.

Is there another strategy-based answer that I am missing?

Hi Cindy,

So a couple things. First, yes you're right that strokes / execution are very important here. But I want to highlight that an understanding of strategy and what's important (the Factors) gives you direction as you try to improve your technique. A large part of the frustration for most recreational players when they blow it in the Death Grip is that they don't understand why. They don't know what they're doing wrong, and it leads to passive play (hanging out at the baseline when you should move forward).

More simply, a strategic foundation leads to more rapid improvement of your strokes, because you're working on stuff that matters.

Second, from a shorter-term "strategic or tactical fix" perspective, yes, you can adjust and have more immediate success in the Death Grip. For example, most recreational players think, "short ball, time to hit hard." But maybe they can't rip balls that are high in their strike zones.

So let's come back to the Factors at our disposal - C, P, SZ, Tr, Ti, M. Instead of upping the power, let's take some off the ball. Let's also tap into our opponent's low strike zone, and get them hitting while moving. Ideally, we can hit a short low slice to our opponent's backhand so they have to run forward and dig it off their shoelaces. Most recreational players are awful at this. But going at the forehand works well if that part of the court is exposed.

The resulting shot will probably be some high floaty ball that we are now in position to volley to the open court. If you can slice or "slice / block" the ball you'll be able to pull this tactic off.

Thinking a few chess moves ahead, what if our opponent starts to anticipate this and move forward when he hits short? Well, then you can block / slice it deep either right at him so it bounces right at his feet as he's closing (not easy to handle), or you can go into the open court so now he has to stop and back up to get it. No easy either. Or you can just hit a mediocre topspin / flat approach shot, but because your opponent is now forward in the court it becomes MUCH more effective thanks to his poor positioning.

Anyway, that's just one example. Again, strokes are extremely important, but I think zeroing in on them and blocking everything else out leads to you ignoring the many tools at your disposal, regardless of your level.

Let me know what you think,

Will

[maleyoyo]

Originally Posted by spot

I do. I guess to me there is a difference between strategy and tactics. To me S&V is a tactic. Its a tactic to serve everything to the backhand. Its a tactic to keep the ball low. These are simply about shot selection and then it is simply about execution. But to me the tactic selection is entirely dependent on the shots you possess and the shots your opponent possesses. Watching the strategy that the pros use couldn't be more irrelevant.

For a Pro they can work on kicking a serve down the middle to the backhand and then covering the angles that the returner has. But thats a Pro with a world class kick serve. Serving to a guy with a world class backhand with world class topspin. The server has a world class overhead and world class volleys. That couldn't be any more irrelevant to what a 4.0 needs to expect when he puts his kick serve down the middle to a rec players backhand.

I compare that to doubles where I think there is exponentially more strategy. There you can talk about lobbing the net player to get into a switched formation. Then having your net player plan to poach across since the next ball almost always goes back up the line or is a lob. Singles to me is about just having a simple plan and executing it.

Good points. I’m not sure what you mean with ‘simple plan’ but as players become strong 4.0s borderline 4.5s they have enough control of their strokes and the ball to use different strategies. They become to develop playing styles as well.

To me strategy is an idea how to beat a certain player and tactics are ways to do it. Players ask one another all the times on how to beat Mr. X…There are about 6 different playing styles along with many attributes with every player, so there are countless different strategies. For examples: A good baseliner and notorious slow-starter, excellent baseliner with weak net game, player with good lateral and lousy vertical movements, a fearsome FH with short temper…just to name a few. Each player requires a specific plan to play against plus your opponent has his own plan to counter your plans too.

If your goal is to improve your game, then watching the pros with similar game to yours over time is beneficial. That way you can specifically tailor a plan to improve your weaknesses and best utilize your strengths during a match and in the future.

I’d never dream of a FH like Fed, but I can learn to position like him. And yes how far my opponent and I stand from the baseline or from the middle during a rally in a given situation makes a huge difference for me in singles. By watching Fed , I’ve been trying to develop BH slice DTL and BH drop shot and very glad that I did.

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Will, how do you prevent people from picking on your backhand all the time ? other than the obvious like run around it and hit a inside out forehand or serve and volley.

I used to serve and volley and attack the net all the time in singles and this really hid my weak backhand, but now i am older, i can't serve and volley effectively anymore all the time since i am slower and footwork isn't as good.
also it has become much harder to run around the backhand since i am older too.

Is there a way still to prevent my opponents from picking on your backhand all the time ?

Hey,

So I would think of the question this way - is your opponent hitting the ball at your backhand on his terms or yours? If he is dictating play that's not good. But if you're running a play on him and a mediocre shot goes at your backhand that's no problem.

I'm a lefty, so typically I avoid situations where a righty can hit cross court at my backhand for an extended period of time. I'm going to lose most of those points. But there are all sorts of situations where I'm more than happy to hit a backhand (even if it's to my opponent's forehand) because it's in the context of the play I'm running. I have a very specific plan, and the cross court backhand is part of that plan.

If you read my last few posts you'll see that I talk about "Factors." I'd identify exactly which ones you're weak at on your backhand, and which ones you're OK or even good at. Remember, you can combine them. For example, maybe you handle strike zone (SZ) high OK, but not when you combine it with hitting while moving (M).

I'd also consider what shots you hit to your opponent that allows him to pick on your backhand. Maybe he likes strike zone medium with some pace (P)... don't give him that. If you're observant, pretty soon you'll be able to anticipate what's coming and have a sense of who has the upper hand in the point.

Hope that helps!

Will

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

Hey,

So I would think of the question this way - is your opponent hitting the ball at your backhand on his terms or yours? If he is dictating play that's not good. But if you're running a play on him and a mediocre shot goes at your backhand that's no problem.

I'm a lefty, so typically I avoid situations where a righty can hit cross court at my backhand for an extended period of time. I'm going to lose most of those points. But there are all sorts of situations where I'm more than happy to hit a backhand (even if it's to my opponent's forehand) because it's in the context of the play I'm running. I have a very specific plan, and the cross court backhand is part of that plan.

If you read my last few posts you'll see that I talk about "Factors." I'd identify exactly which ones you're weak at on your backhand, and which ones you're OK or even good at. Remember, you can combine them. For example, maybe you handle strike zone (SZ) high OK, but not when you combine it with hitting while moving (M).

I'd also consider what shots you hit to your opponent that allows him to pick on your backhand. Maybe he likes strike zone medium with some pace (P)... don't give him that. If you're observant, pretty soon you'll be able to anticipate what's coming and have a sense of who has the upper hand in the point.

Hope that helps!

Will

WOW, you are a Genius. You should be coaching pros like Murray or Berdych. and i mean it.

You are so right about what is troubling me. i have little problem with midzone or lowzone backhand. problem is high ball or on the run. On the run backhand is the most problem. YOu are also right on make my opponent hit shots that is not comfortable to him. I didn't think of that. when guys find out my backhand is weak, they hit big topspin forehands high to my backhand and keep doing it til i miss. i try to go up the line but it is low % and i often miss it. not sure how to change up this pattern so i can make him miss first ?

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

WOW, you are a Genius. You should be coaching pros like Murray or Berdych. and i mean it.

You are so right about what is troubling me. i have little problem with midzone or lowzone backhand. problem is high ball or on the run. On the run backhand is the most problem. YOu are also right on make my opponent hit shots that is not comfortable to him. I didn't think of that. when guys find out my backhand is weak, they hit big topspin forehands high to my backhand and keep doing it til i miss. i try to go up the line but it is low % and i often miss it. not sure how to change up this pattern so i can make him miss first ?

Thanks! Happy to help. So that pattern is going to be a loser for you. I would work to stay out of it in the first place. If you look at Federer, he has the same problem you do against Nadal. Big topspin forehands at his backhand. Going up the line is low percentage so Federer has to pick his spots carefully, and it's more about limiting the damage (i.e. not losing the point every time he gets into this exchange) than it is about finding a way to turn it to his advantage. Because he can't.

So the trick for both you and Federer is the same. Avoid that scenario as much as possible. And when it does happen, manage it as best as possible.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

Thanks! Happy to help. So that pattern is going to be a loser for you. I would work to stay out of it in the first place. If you look at Federer, he has the same problem you do against Nadal. Big topspin forehands at his backhand. Going up the line is low percentage so Federer has to pick his spots carefully, and it's more about limiting the damage (i.e. not losing the point every time he gets into this exchange) than it is about finding a way to turn it to his advantage. Because he can't.

So the trick for both you and Federer is the same. Avoid that scenario as much as possible. And when it does happen, manage it as best as possible.

real question is how do you stay out of that situation ? beg your opponent not to do that to you ?

[theblueark]

Originally Posted by wihamilton

Edited / bolded your comment because Singles Playbook is an FYB product. Not Ian / Essential Tennis.

Oops, both of you have short first names haha. I was picturing you in my mind when I typed that but I somehow typed his name.

real question is how do you stay out of that situation ? beg your opponent not to do that to you ?

I think the idea is to spend a bit of effort taking note what kind of shots you give your opponent that give him the chance to hit that shot to you.

Maybe whenever you break directionals and hit a forehand down the line, he hits that shot and you lose 70% of the time, with the other 30% of the time you hit an awesome untouchable winner. Maybe if you stuck with only hitting forehands cross court, no matter what, you win 60% of the time. In that case you can consider never breaking directionals against him, even if you have an awesome down the line forehand and love those winners.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by theblueark

Oops, both of you have short first names haha. I was picturing you in my mind when I typed that but I somehow typed his name.



I think the idea is to spend a bit of effort taking note what kind of shots you give your opponent that give him the chance to hit that shot to you.

Maybe whenever you break directionals and hit a forehand down the line, he hits that shot and you lose 70% of the time, with the other 30% of the time you hit an awesome untouchable winner. Maybe if you stuck with only hitting forehands cross court, no matter what, you win 60% of the time. In that case you can consider never breaking directionals against him, even if you have an awesome down the line forehand and love those winners.

I think Will has a good way of breaking out of that pattern. because he said he also loses most of the points when he goes crosscourt pattern with his backhand to his opponent's forehand.

[wihamilton]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

I think Will has a good way of breaking out of that pattern. because he said he also loses most of the points when he goes crosscourt pattern with his backhand to his opponent's forehand.

If my opponent is dictating play, then yes. But if I'm in control of the point I don't mind going at my opponent's forehand. For example, often I'll do it to move him over to his forehand side, which exposes his backhand. Then I can hit a high trajectory shot to his backhand, forcing him to hit a ball high in his strike zone while on the move. Classic Nadal play.