Like it or not Serena Williams is the Greatest

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by tennisaddict

As much as my respect for Serena has grown over the years, it is not fair to compare her to Graf. A 40+ year old Graf was playing Kim Clijsters and Petkovic beautifully.

Check out youtube.

Graf retired when she was 30.

Are you talking about some exhibition matches?

[NikeWilson]

Serena Williams VS Steffi Graff 1999 Indian Wells
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJE4vCj155o

Whoever wins this match is the Greatest.

[The-Champ]

Originally Posted by tennisaddict

As much as my respect for Serena has grown over the years, it is not fair to compare her to Graf. A 40+ year old Graf was playing Kim Clijsters and Petkovic beautifully.

Check out youtube.

that's exhibition. Do you also believe that Sampras beat Federer fair and square in Macao in 2007? lol

[mistik]

Originally Posted by DRII

Psyche! Your post illustrates perfectly how quickly people forget!

...

Yea, its just age a certain auto immune disease has nothing to do with Venus' drastic decline

Venus didnt shine outside of grass since 2001 and that has to say you something right,and this has nothing to do with immune disease,because she won many Wimbledon titles after 2001.Serena one of the greatest ever,Venus great but certainly not in the same league with Graf,Martina and Serena.

[DRII]

Originally Posted by mistik

Venus didnt shine outside of grass since 2001 and that has to say you something right,and this has nothing to do with immune disease,because she won many Wimbledon titles after 2001.Serena one of the greatest ever,Venus great but certainly not in the same league with Graf,Martina and Serena.

You can't have it both ways!

As far as records -- no, Venus is not of the caliber of Graf, Navratilova, Everett; but neither is Serena! At least not yet, the only category she might catch up in is # of slams (I highly doubt she will reach Graf's 22)...

As far as form: Venus is the best I've ever seen, except on clay. No woman has been faster or more offensive and explosive. If you disagree, thats your prerogative, but don't act as if your opinion is fact; particularly when it's being bolstered by Serena's results against a very weak current field...

[90's Clay]

Serena is far from the greatest. Winning slams in the worst WTA field in HISTORY full of talentless mugs wouldn't change that
If Graf spent half her career playing this awful field she manages a slam count in the high 30s


Hell Serena can't even stay at #1 vs. this mug field

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by 90's Clay

Serena is far from the greatest. Winning slams in the worst WTA field in HISTORY full of talentless mugs wouldn't change that
If Graf spent half her career playing this awful field she manages a slam count in the high 30s


Hell Serena can't even stay at #1 vs. this mug field

Except all of that is a complete lie.

Evert, Martina N, Pam Shriver, etc have all admitted that women's tennis is deeper than it ever was.

During their eras, they most often didn't play competative matches until late in the 2nd week of a slam.

[tennisaddict]

Originally Posted by Soianka

Graf retired when she was 30.

Are you talking about some exhibition matches?

Forget exhibition and also forget 22 > 14.

Graf's era spanned Martina Navratilova, Monica Seles , Sabatini, Hingis, Chris Evert , Arantxa Sanchez , Lindsay, Venus, Conchita Martinez, Mary Pierce.

Serena's era - only noteworthy opponent is Justine Henin.

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by tennisaddict

Forget exhibition and also forget 22 > 14.

Graf's era spanned Martina Navratilova, Monica Seles , Sabatini, Hingis, Chris Evert , Arantxa Sanchez , Lindsay, Venus, Conchita Martinez, Mary Pierce.

Serena's era - only noteworthy opponent is Justine Henin.

Take a look at some of the draws of the slams Graf won and see who she played in round 1 through round 4.

Sorry, but there is a ton more depth in today's game than what Graf faced.

Graf basically got 4-5 easy wins every slam. No wonder she won as many slams as she did.

Graf would definitely not be as dominant a player today as she was in her heydey...especially if she still never developed a solid topspin backhand.

[NikeWilson]

Here's was an interesting Sports Illustrated article about this last year.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ams/index.html

[BauerAlmeida]

Originally Posted by Soianka

Except all of that is a complete lie.

Evert, Martina N, Pam Shriver, etc have all admitted that women's tennis is deeper than it ever was.

During their eras, they most often didn't play competative matches until late in the 2nd week of a slam.

Lol, today they don't even play competitive matches at all.

Players outisde the TOP 20 (or even top 10) lose 6-2 6-0 to the top players. This is the worst WTA ever. Graff and martina are better than Serena.

[kishnabe]

Graf is the greatest.......

[Vcore89]

Steffi is the greatest! Seles might have been the Nadal of Graf had she not been stab (the signs are showing more and more back then)...

[Gizo]

Serena cannot be the greatest when she has only reached one French Open final during her career.

Since Henin's first retirement in 2008 the women's clay court field has been incredibly weak, and Serena still hasn't been able to reach the last 4 at RG during that time as well.

[Gizo]

Still I will reiterate that Serena has played by far the best tennis I have ever seen from a woman on grass and hard courts. Incredible stuff to watch.

And unlike someone like Navratilova who is obsessed with her legacy, I don't think Serena overly cares too much about where people rank her in relation to other greats. Still it would be funny if Serena could surpass 18 slam titles, to see how Navratilova would react to that. Evert congratulated Graf when she moved past 18 slam titles at RG in 1996, while Navratilova was incredibly bitter.

I really do fear the future of women's tennis when Serena and Venus do eventually retire. Even Sharapova hasn't been able to draw huge TV ratings for her big tournament finals in recent years against the likes of Kvitova and Errani. She has needed Serena on the other side of the net like with the Olympic final to get many casual fans to tune in.

[dominikk1985]

Originally Posted by TMF

Serena just beat a 5'4" player with a serve at 60mph, no power, reach disadvantage. I'm sure many players can beat Errani.

yes but in grafs or everts time there were just erranis while serena had to face justine, davenport, kim, maria, kvitova, ivanovic and other tall and really hard hitting girls. she also had to face venus and lost a few titles to her.

I would still not call her the best ever but she faced a lot tougher opposition as steffi, evert or even moreso court and jean king faced.

[jelle v]

Originally Posted by DRII

Psyche! Your post illustrates perfectly how quickly people forget!

...

Yea, its just age a certain auto immune disease has nothing to do with Venus' drastic decline

Well I'm 32 years old, been watching tennis since 1986 or so and I have never been really impressed with Venus her game.. I agree with the poster. I think Serena's game is a level above Venus her game.

When Venus was just on tour and quickly was a major force, people in that time were already saying that Venus had a younger sister who was even more talented, so I don't think it is far fetched to think that Serena is the better player.

[kiki]

Serena never faced the density of champions that Graf or Hingis faced at their prime.Like Federer, the weak fields she faced belittle her achievements and put them straight into second tier ( which ain´t bad)

[Evan77]

no she is not. It is Graf by far. check your facts guys. Serena will never achieve what Steffy did, plus she is playing in this silly era with no competition.

when you grow up, go watch some Graf's s matches and you'll understand.

[DeShaun]

Could Serena have beaten Evert with wooden rackets inhibiting heavily powered topspin strokes familiar with Serena, insisting instead on levels of stroking accuracy that are off of the charts? And repeat those strokes using only wooden rackets. . .it cannot be done. Serena would be disadvantaged, IMO. Serena has harnessed the power of modern rackets, defining the upper limits to power in the women's game. She is not some undisputed goat or "the best ever to play," but I am immensely proud of her coming back and it's frightening how quickly she became dominant again.