Courier Gear Interview

[Dave M]

A guy who is sponsored by a company that gives him a 102 inch racquet and poly strings to use and advertise says we should use a 102" racquet and poly strings.....Must be true.

[YesTennis]

Originally Posted by drakulie

Love Courier, but he is dead wrong.

I remember when Navratilova and Mcenore were commenting on the strings todays players use. They stated that the poly used today, is much more powerful than the natural gut they used. Clueless.

Fact is, most players and even commentators know sh!t about equipment. Nothing, zero, squat. They have no idea how poly could *enhance* spin, if in fact the players swings hard enough to get the benefit, which most recreational players can't.

What ends up happening is they get less power, less spin, less comfort. To add, they unlike pros, don't re-string every day, so end up playing with a dead string.

To give you an example of how often players re-string, Courier, who doesn't even play on tour anymore, had me re-string his frame 3 times for a champions series match (gosen og micro in mains, alu power in crosses).

drakulie- based on your information, could you make a general string recommendation for a 3.5-4.0 player?

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by drakulie

Love Courier, but he is dead wrong.

I remember when Navratilova and Mcenore were commenting on the strings todays players use. They stated that the poly used today, is much more powerful than the natural gut they used. Clueless.

Fact is, most players and even commentators know sh!t about equipment. Nothing, zero, squat. They have no idea how poly could *enhance* spin, if in fact the players swings hard enough to get the benefit, which most recreational players can't.

What ends up happening is they get less power, less spin, less comfort. To add, they unlike pros, don't re-string every day, so end up playing with a dead string.

To give you an example of how often players re-string, Courier, who doesn't even play on tour anymore, had me re-string his frame 3 times for a champions series match (gosen og micro in mains, alu power in crosses).

Years ago I listened to Johnny Mac talking about Rafa saying you should go with the lightest racket possible. I listened to this advice and that led to my first elbow injury. I won't listen to the playing pros anymore for equipment advice.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by YesTennis

drakulie- based on your information, could you make a general string recommendation for a 3.5-4.0 player?

I you are not a string breaker, then natural gut. If that is too expensive a proposition, then any multi. There are a lot of good ones out there:

NXT
NXT TOUR
Sensation
Xcel,
x-1 biphase
xR1
Pro Supex Maxim Touch
Genesis Explosion
Premier LT


Good luck!

Originally Posted by mikeler

Years ago I listened to Johnny Mac talking about Rafa saying you should go with the lightest racket possible. I listened to this advice and that led to my first elbow injury. I won't listen to the playing pros anymore for equipment advice.

Unfortunately, and ironically, they simply give bad advice/information about equipment vs good info. Same goes for most teaching pros.

[samster]

Originally Posted by jackcrawford

Between the two segments, about fifteen minutes. Of interest, he wishes he hadn't been stubborn and stuck with small head rackets because there is no advantage to a 90 over his new 102. He also says all recreational players should use poly in their stringbed, as at any swing speed it gives an advantage. Courier is one of the two best commentators on the pro game, an accomplished senior player as well as a former ATP #1, and his opinions on those subjects are at odds with many of the posters on these boards, but certainly carry more weight.
http://www.tennis.com/gear/2012/09/g.../#.UE1iy1F62Sq
http://www.tennis.com/gear/2012/09/g.../#.UE1iy1F62Sq

So recreational players can get tennis elbows?

I agree with drakulie. Recreational players have no business using polyester strings.

[realplayer]

Originally Posted by drakulie

I you are not a string breaker, then natural gut. If that is too expensive a proposition, then any multi. There are a lot of good ones out there:

NXT
NXT TOUR
Sensation
Xcel,
x-1 biphase
xR1
Pro Supex Maxim Touch
Genesis Explosion
Premier LT


Good luck!



Unfortunately, and ironically, they simply give bad advice/information about equipment vs good info. Same goes for most teaching pros.

Great to hear that but also confusing cause all the experts from top stringers/former players have complete opposite opinions but I prefer this opinion as it saves me a lot of money and is better for my arm and i'm lucky cause i can continue with my favourite and cheapest synthetic gut(toalson gold) which I like better than the expensive x-1 biphase or x-cel. It's very personal I guess.

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by drakulie

Love Courier, but he is dead wrong.

I remember when Navratilova and Mcenore were commenting on the strings todays players use. They stated that the poly used today, is much more powerful than the natural gut they used. Clueless.

LMAO....I heard the same thing. Navratilova's most recent comment was that polys were like "toys". They opened up areas of the court that she used to not be able to hit. Based on her backhand, I wonder how much good a poly does for a really solid slice.

Originally Posted by drakulie

To give you an example of how often players re-string, Courier, who doesn't even play on tour anymore, had me re-string his frame 3 times for a champions series match (gosen og micro in mains, alu power in crosses).

And that's the problem. The pros, touring and former touring, really don't live in the real world of equipment. All their stuff is catered. The real deal in advice probably is better found with the journeyman player who has to live with his choices in equipment. When I strung for a satellite that was here a few years ago, there was very little poly. Most of those guys were using Wilson NXT. Why? Because they got it free and it didn't hurt would be my guess.

Originally Posted by mikeler

Years ago I listened to Johnny Mac talking about Rafa saying you should go with the lightest racket possible. I listened to this advice and that led to my first elbow injury. I won't listen to the playing pros anymore for equipment advice.

That is hilarious. Back even further, McEnroe was commenting on a Michael Stich match. He said, and it is true, that Stich used an unusually light frame for a pro; around 315 grams. McEnroe went on to say that he didn't know how Stich's arm didn't fall off. McEnroe said the rule of thumb was to play as heavy as you could.

I don't think McEnroe's specs have changed any since his C10 days.

[realplayer]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

LMAO....I heard the same thing. Navratilova's most recent comment was that polys were like "toys". They opened up areas of the court that she used to not be able to hit. Based on her backhand, I wonder how much good a poly does for a really solid slice.

Her style of play is not even suited for poly. Maybe in a hybrid but not full bed.

[drakulie]

Originally Posted by realplayer

Great to hear that but also confusing cause all the experts from top stringers/former players have complete opposite opinions

I wouldn't consider any former player an "expert" on anything related to equipment. They really do not have any clue. Trust me, I've strung for enough of them to know.

As for top stringers, could you give an example?

Originally Posted by Rabbit

The pros, touring and former touring, really don't live in the real world of equipment. All their stuff is catered. The real deal in advice probably is better found with the journeyman player who has to live with his choices in equipment.

Bingo!

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by drakulie

I you are not a string breaker, then natural gut. If that is too expensive a proposition, then any multi. There are a lot of good ones out there:

NXT
NXT TOUR
Sensation
Xcel,
x-1 biphase
xR1
Pro Supex Maxim Touch
Genesis Explosion
Premier LT


Good luck!



Unfortunately, and ironically, they simply give bad advice/information about equipment vs good info. Same goes for most teaching pros.

I would second Xcel and LT for comfort. I used both of them before finally switching to the Wilson Shockshield for arm safety.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by YesTennis

drakulie- based on your information, could you make a general string recommendation for a 3.5-4.0 player?

Check out my reviews here:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=352048

Originally Posted by sureshs

I would second Xcel and LT for comfort. I used both of them before finally switching to the Wilson Shockshield for arm safety.

Funny, I thought Shock Shield was kind of stiff.

[realplayer]

#DRAKULIE

Well, I tried to look it up but you are right. The only ones who advocates for poly is the luxilon expert(he is also against hybriding strings as it brings nothing) and John Elliot who is hardly objective otherwise he wouldn't sell his L-Tec monofilament strings anymore.

BTW I found this article and i'm very curious about your opinion and if it makes sense to string poly at low tension.



The Definitive Guide to Stringing Polys and Co-polys

Posted on March 17, 2011 by GGTennis
This entry was posted in Stringing and tagged proper way to string poly and co poly tennis string, stringing polys and copolys by GGTennis. Bookmark the permalink.
1
Okay students, time to take notes.

Qualitative analysis of tennis message boards, tennis twitter accounts, facebook pages, blogs and various discussions has convinced me that the vast majority of stringers are not well versed in the nature of poly and co-poly strings. As a result, many stringers, even those widely respected and much revered, do not install poly-based strings in a manner that optimizes their performance. In fact, it is not going out on much of a limb to estimate that 90% or more of stringers in the USA are UNINTENTIONALLY installing these strings in a manner which robs them of performance characteristics. I know because until late 2010 I was among this group of well-intentioned professional stringers who was unknowingly butchering these strings because I was not aware of how they needed to be handled.

First of all, and perhaps the biggest obstacle to overcome, is to realize that poly-based strings are designed to perform best at lower tensions. We are talking a tension range in the 30′s – 40′s. The absolute top end of that range would be 52 pounds. Once you go beyond 52, you are entering the point of quickly diminishing returns. I realize this may represent a HUGE shift in thinking for many readers. In fact a majority of you are probably thinking of mailing me a care package of colorful Sharpies so that I can decorate the walls of my padded room, but it is not really that crazy. The fear of low tensions is loss of control. I can assure you from personal experience as well as experience with many local customers, that quality poly-based offerings, PROPERLY INSTALLED, give ample control at these low tensions. I PROMISE this is a true statement. In fact, when all elements are working together (strings/racquet/player) it becomes almost impossible to hit a ball long.

Installing poly-based strings requires one critical element that many stringers may find challenging. P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E! It is not possible to provide to a quality stringjob with poly-based strings using a rushed sequence. The 15 minute stringjob that may be just fine for synthetics and natural gut, just is not going to cut it with poly-based strings. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO RUSH THE STRINGING PROCESS WITH POLY BASED STRINGS. Some professional stringers may take issue with this statement. They will claim their stringing method is fine-tuned, precise and consistent. We take no issues with these claims. However, those elements without additional care are NOT good enough to produce the best outcomes for poly-based strings. What they produce is consistently mediocre (at best) results. We must remember that the majority of recreational and league players need their strings to last much longer than the pros who get a fresh string job every 9 games. They need to last for weeks and sometimes months.

Poly-based strings are oft criticized for being stiff, rapidly losing tension, contributing to elbow pain and failing to hold playing properties. Each of these claims can be true, except there is a huge BUT here that dwarfs even that of Ms. Kardashian. These statements are only true when the strings have been overtensioned and OVERSTRETCHED. When not overtensioned or overstretched poly-based strings are EXTREMELY COMFORTABLE, LOSE LESS TENSION THAN MOST SYNTHETICS, and HOLD PLAYING PROPERTIES for an extended period of time. (The last varies according to makeup of string).

How can this be? The literature, testimonials and even the USRSA data show that poly-based strings loose tension rapidly. Clearly the statement made in the above paragraph is nothing more than an outpouring of a deranged mind, right? Well, not necessarily. We are suggesting that all this data is gathered from and observed by individuals and groups who have overtensioned the poly-based strings…including the USRSA who test at 62 pounds! (This might give representative results with other strings, but it just ain’t gonna fly with poly-based offerings.)

Poly-based strings have a much lower level of resiliency than synthetics and natural gut. As such, when being installed, it must be handled with care. Even though it is a strong and durable string in the raquet, it takes a tender touch to install properly. The best analogy we have found comes from John Elliot. John compares poly-based strings to the spring that can be found in your average ball point pen. Just like the spring it offers resiliency and when properly used it will hold this resiliency for an extended period of time. However, just like the spring in the pen, it can be easily stretched out of shape if not handled properly. Once this stretching occurs, the spring is dead. It will continue to elongate, but will not retract back into it’s original form and shape. The exact same principle applies to a poly-based string. It CAN NOT be OVERSTRETCHED or OVERTENSIONED without suffering consequences.

Unfortunately in order to keep it in perfect form, there are 2 CRITICAL STEPS that must be taken during installation which are not necessary with strings of different constructions. These steps will without question slow the stringing process. However, it is necessary in order for the poly-based strings to give optimal performance.

1. If using a constant pull electronic machine, the machine’s pull speed needs to be set to the lowest possible speed. We use a Wilson Baiardo and the lowest pull speed is 30%. It is easily set to this level and this is where the Baiardo is most effective for stringing poly-based strings. The reason this step is necessary is because electronic machines overshoot tension and then back down to the desired level. The faster the pull speed the more dramatic and harsh the overshoot. Most machines will overshoot at least 10% – 18% over the set tension. (Remember we are trying not to exceed 52 pounds in order not to overstretch the string!)

2. Once tension is reached, the stringer needs to wait at least 5 seconds before clamping off. This allows the poly-based string to stretch PROPERLY. By failing to give poly-based strings this much time slack is not properly removed and the string will loose tension and the wonderous low-tension performance will never be realized.

By following this pulling procedure the end result will be a tighter stringbed that holds tension for a longer period of time than one with higher reference tensions not pulled with an eye toward end performance rather than speed. In the south we refer to this process as “Moseying.” You gotta take your time, mosey along and enjoy yourself while stringing poly-based strings. It’s really the only way to do it well.

At this point a summary is in order. To get the best possible performance from poly-based strings you need to make sure you or your stringer do the following:

1. Select a tension in the upper 30′s – 40′s. The tension will vary according to density of stringbed and head size. (Note: It can be easily adjusted through observational learning. We’ll cover this in a future blog entry.)

2. Set pull speed to lowest possible setting when using an electronic constant pull machine. If using drop weight, lower bar slowly. If using a crank machine once machine starts to resist crank very, very slowly until it locks.

3. Allow string to sit under tension at least 5 seconds before clamping so that it has sufficient time to properly stretch.

Keep an open mind, give it a try and you will be AMAZED at the results.

[Rozroz]

Originally Posted by realplayer

#DRAKULIE

Well, I tried to look it up but you are right. The only ones who advocates for poly is the luxilon expert(he is also against hybriding strings as it brings nothing) and John Elliot who is hardly objective otherwise he wouldn't sell his L-Tec monofilament strings anymore.

BTW I found this article and i'm very curious about your opinion and if it makes sense to string poly at low tension.



The Definitive Guide to Stringing Polys and Co-polys

Posted on March 17, 2011 by GGTennis
This entry was posted in Stringing and tagged proper way to string poly and co poly tennis string, stringing polys and copolys by GGTennis. Bookmark the permalink.
1
Okay students, time to take notes.

Qualitative analysis of tennis message boards, tennis twitter accounts, facebook pages, blogs and various discussions has convinced me that the vast majority of stringers are not well versed in the nature of poly and co-poly strings. As a result, many stringers, even those widely respected and much revered, do not install poly-based strings in a manner that optimizes their performance. In fact, it is not going out on much of a limb to estimate that 90% or more of stringers in the USA are UNINTENTIONALLY installing these strings in a manner which robs them of performance characteristics. I know because until late 2010 I was among this group of well-intentioned professional stringers who was unknowingly butchering these strings because I was not aware of how they needed to be handled.

First of all, and perhaps the biggest obstacle to overcome, is to realize that poly-based strings are designed to perform best at lower tensions. We are talking a tension range in the 30′s – 40′s. The absolute top end of that range would be 52 pounds. Once you go beyond 52, you are entering the point of quickly diminishing returns. I realize this may represent a HUGE shift in thinking for many readers. In fact a majority of you are probably thinking of mailing me a care package of colorful Sharpies so that I can decorate the walls of my padded room, but it is not really that crazy. The fear of low tensions is loss of control. I can assure you from personal experience as well as experience with many local customers, that quality poly-based offerings, PROPERLY INSTALLED, give ample control at these low tensions. I PROMISE this is a true statement. In fact, when all elements are working together (strings/racquet/player) it becomes almost impossible to hit a ball long.

Installing poly-based strings requires one critical element that many stringers may find challenging. P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E! It is not possible to provide to a quality stringjob with poly-based strings using a rushed sequence. The 15 minute stringjob that may be just fine for synthetics and natural gut, just is not going to cut it with poly-based strings. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO RUSH THE STRINGING PROCESS WITH POLY BASED STRINGS. Some professional stringers may take issue with this statement. They will claim their stringing method is fine-tuned, precise and consistent. We take no issues with these claims. However, those elements without additional care are NOT good enough to produce the best outcomes for poly-based strings. What they produce is consistently mediocre (at best) results. We must remember that the majority of recreational and league players need their strings to last much longer than the pros who get a fresh string job every 9 games. They need to last for weeks and sometimes months.

Poly-based strings are oft criticized for being stiff, rapidly losing tension, contributing to elbow pain and failing to hold playing properties. Each of these claims can be true, except there is a huge BUT here that dwarfs even that of Ms. Kardashian. These statements are only true when the strings have been overtensioned and OVERSTRETCHED. When not overtensioned or overstretched poly-based strings are EXTREMELY COMFORTABLE, LOSE LESS TENSION THAN MOST SYNTHETICS, and HOLD PLAYING PROPERTIES for an extended period of time. (The last varies according to makeup of string).

How can this be? The literature, testimonials and even the USRSA data show that poly-based strings loose tension rapidly. Clearly the statement made in the above paragraph is nothing more than an outpouring of a deranged mind, right? Well, not necessarily. We are suggesting that all this data is gathered from and observed by individuals and groups who have overtensioned the poly-based strings…including the USRSA who test at 62 pounds! (This might give representative results with other strings, but it just ain’t gonna fly with poly-based offerings.)

Poly-based strings have a much lower level of resiliency than synthetics and natural gut. As such, when being installed, it must be handled with care. Even though it is a strong and durable string in the raquet, it takes a tender touch to install properly. The best analogy we have found comes from John Elliot. John compares poly-based strings to the spring that can be found in your average ball point pen. Just like the spring it offers resiliency and when properly used it will hold this resiliency for an extended period of time. However, just like the spring in the pen, it can be easily stretched out of shape if not handled properly. Once this stretching occurs, the spring is dead. It will continue to elongate, but will not retract back into it’s original form and shape. The exact same principle applies to a poly-based string. It CAN NOT be OVERSTRETCHED or OVERTENSIONED without suffering consequences.

Unfortunately in order to keep it in perfect form, there are 2 CRITICAL STEPS that must be taken during installation which are not necessary with strings of different constructions. These steps will without question slow the stringing process. However, it is necessary in order for the poly-based strings to give optimal performance.

1. If using a constant pull electronic machine, the machine’s pull speed needs to be set to the lowest possible speed. We use a Wilson Baiardo and the lowest pull speed is 30%. It is easily set to this level and this is where the Baiardo is most effective for stringing poly-based strings. The reason this step is necessary is because electronic machines overshoot tension and then back down to the desired level. The faster the pull speed the more dramatic and harsh the overshoot. Most machines will overshoot at least 10% – 18% over the set tension. (Remember we are trying not to exceed 52 pounds in order not to overstretch the string!)

2. Once tension is reached, the stringer needs to wait at least 5 seconds before clamping off. This allows the poly-based string to stretch PROPERLY. By failing to give poly-based strings this much time slack is not properly removed and the string will loose tension and the wonderous low-tension performance will never be realized.

By following this pulling procedure the end result will be a tighter stringbed that holds tension for a longer period of time than one with higher reference tensions not pulled with an eye toward end performance rather than speed. In the south we refer to this process as “Moseying.” You gotta take your time, mosey along and enjoy yourself while stringing poly-based strings. It’s really the only way to do it well.

At this point a summary is in order. To get the best possible performance from poly-based strings you need to make sure you or your stringer do the following:

1. Select a tension in the upper 30′s – 40′s. The tension will vary according to density of stringbed and head size. (Note: It can be easily adjusted through observational learning. We’ll cover this in a future blog entry.)

2. Set pull speed to lowest possible setting when using an electronic constant pull machine. If using drop weight, lower bar slowly. If using a crank machine once machine starts to resist crank very, very slowly until it locks.

3. Allow string to sit under tension at least 5 seconds before clamping so that it has sufficient time to properly stretch.

Keep an open mind, give it a try and you will be AMAZED at the results.

AMAZING READ.
makes perfect sense.
thanks!
i'm not sure how happy my stringer's gonna be trying to tell him that though...
btw- i'm currently having a poly mains multi cross.. which feels fine for the past few months (restringing every 10 hours or so). it's 56/54.
what would you recommend doing for a first step towards your tip?

[mikeler]

Of course the Luxilon guy thinks hybrids are a waste, he wants you to buy a full set of Luxilon!

[realplayer]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Of course the Luxilon guy thinks hybrids are a waste, he wants you to buy a full set of Luxilon!

Yes, I know.

Originally Posted by realplayer

These are the specs of Nadal and Federer. Nadal is not playing a headlight racket with an almost even balance and an extreme high swingweight!!

Nadal = 335/33,8/365 sw

Federer = 360.5/31.6/330 sw

yeah I think he got that backwards didn't he?

[realplayer]

Originally Posted by Rozroz

AMAZING READ.
makes perfect sense.
thanks!
i'm not sure how happy my stringer's gonna be trying to tell him that though...
btw- i'm currently having a poly mains multi cross.. which feels fine for the past few months (restringing every 10 hours or so). it's 56/54.
what would you recommend doing for a first step towards your tip?

Find a good stringer.

[realplayer]

Originally Posted by Rozroz

AMAZING READ.
makes perfect sense.
thanks!
i'm not sure how happy my stringer's gonna be trying to tell him that though...
btw- i'm currently having a poly mains multi cross.. which feels fine for the past few months (restringing every 10 hours or so). it's 56/54.
what would you recommend doing for a first step towards your tip?

BTW, it is not a tip. I'm just curious about the performance of poly at low tension in this way and if it is an improvement over multi's or gut. If it's possible or not is a different story.

[Rozroz]

Originally Posted by realplayer

Find a good stringer.

yea, well i meant more towards the poly tension..

Originally Posted by paulorenzo

i dont think he's recommending anyone who uses gut to switch to a full bed of poly. he goes on to say he doesn't like using a full bed of poly since it makes finishing a point harder with his already spinny strokes. he instead uses a cheap nylon/synthetic in the mains with a co-poly cross which is a pretty comfortable setup, IMO.

he also called his syn gut "nylon". these guys always confuse their terminology when they are interviewed. I give him credit for not pimping gosen, the brand of string he has used for decades.