Increase power: why lead if you can lower the tension?

[ChicagoJack]

Originally Posted by floide

My question is if there is any DIFFERENCE between those 2 ways of getting more power. I know what to do with the lead, just not sure if that's any better/worse then lowering the tension. That's it.

Hi Floide,

I'll do my best to provide a simple answer to a question that could fill many chapters in a book.

1. Add more mass to the hoop = swing the same speed, get more ball velocity, and get more stability on off center hits. Less maneuverability.

2. Lower tension = swing the same speed, get more ball velocity, (although you'd be surprised by how exceedingly small the increase is) No stability increase. Less directional control on off center hits. No changes in maneuverability.

Longer answer: When you hit the ball off center, we all know what happens, the ball wobbles over the net like a wounded duck with out much pace or spin. Adding mass to the hoop will help counteract this event we are all familiar with. Lowering tension does nothing to increase stability on off center shots. In fact, looser tensions create a wider range of possible deflection angles, which translates into less directional control when struck outside center. In addition, the ball stays on the string bed slightly longer during the 3-5ms contact, which tends to exacerbate slight timing errors, as the racquet (and with it the ball) change elevation from low to to high, on a typical topspin groundie for example.

Something in the way you have phrased the question kinda makes me think you are overlooking perhaps the most important bennies of adding lead? If you take stability off the table, then the choice btwn lower tension and adding more mass seems pretty equivalent. But that benefit is never off the table, and when you factor that in instead of factoring it out the issue gets a whole lot simpler! Hope this helps.

-Jack

[floide]

Originally Posted by ChicagoJack

Something in the way you have phrased the question kinda makes me think you are overlooking perhaps the most important bennies of adding lead, and that is stability. If you take stability off the table, then the choice btwn lower tension and adding more mass seems pretty equivalent. But that benefit is never off the table, and when you factor that in instead of factoring it out the issue gets a whole lot simpler! Hope this helps.

-Jack

I just took stability off the table because I don't feel that as a problem in my Prestiges strung @ 40 lbs, but got your point. Really clear answer, clarified things to me a bit. Thank you!

[CrispyFritters]

Originally Posted by KenC

Note that if you have to add more than 5-10g of lead to the hoop you probably would be better off with another racquet that has more inherent power,

Is this really true?....because I've got about 5-6 grams on the head of my racket right now...and I need an excuse to buy a new racket.

[Circa 1762]

Originally Posted by CrispyFritters

Is this really true?....because I've got about 5-6 grams on the head of my racket right now...and I need an excuse to buy a new racket.

I would guess not. Isn't the point of pro stock rackets to provide a very light base frame to which large amounts of weight can then be added should the player want to?

[Circa 1762]

(Point being - if it's ok for a pro, it's probably ok for everyone else.)

[ChicagoJack]

Originally Posted by floide

I just took stability off the table because I don't feel that as a problem in my Prestiges strung @ 40 lbs, but got your point. Really clear answer, clarified things to me a bit. Thank you!

Cool man, glad to help. Btw, I've played with a lot of Prestiges over the years, and the IG MP is a real effing sweetheart. It was the only serious contender to my P1's when I was demoing the new stuff. You got yerself a real gem of a stick.

Jack

[floide]

Originally Posted by ChicagoJack

Cool man, glad to help. Btw, I've played with a lot of Prestiges over the years, and the IG MP is a real effing sweetheart. It was the only serious contender to my P1's when I was demoing the new stuff. You got yerself a real gem of a stick.

Jack

I got the Prestige Pro, which is more fit to my game style, but liked the MPs almost as much. Really loved this IG line. I was used to the old PC600, so the bar was set high concerning the Prestiges.

[ChicagoJack]

^^^ Cool, I missed that, and it's even in your signature (duh) Yeah, the PC600 were sweet. See you round the ranch, happy hitting!

[Hi I'm Ray]

The answer the OP, with lead you can change the weight distribution: polarized, non polarized, headlight, etc., tweak the swingweight, increase stability, change the feel, and so on. There is probably not much room for this with a heavy frame like a prestige pro, but with a lighter frame such as a tweener there is room for adding a significant amount of lead in various configurations and the differences can be quite noticeable.

I don't notice much of a power difference between say poly at 52lbs and 36lbs for groundies and volleys, although I do feel like I get more pop on serve at lower tensions. At very high tensions it does feel like power drops off. The lower tension changes some playing characteristics which would be my reason for using it. I feel more of power difference between different string and string types, for example kevlar vs poly vs syn gut/multi vs gut.

[KenC]

Originally Posted by CrispyFritters

Is this really true?....because I've got about 5-6 grams on the head of my racket right now...and I need an excuse to buy a new racket.

Absolutely not. 5-6 grams is fine, but when I see/hear that people are putting 15g or more on the hoop or anywhere else I have to wonder why they don't just find a better match that doesn't need so much alteration.

[Gee]

Originally Posted by KenC

Absolutely not. 5-6 grams is fine, but when I see/hear that people are putting 15g or more on the hoop or anywhere else I have to wonder why they don't just find a better match that doesn't need so much alteration.

So all ATP pro players that are playing with a pt57a mould should rather chose another heavier frame in stock condition according to you? They used to add a lot of weight (silicone and lead). Much more than 15 grams.
I think you should look for a frame with the feel/touch that you like. Then you can customize the weight, swingweight, power potential and balance of your racquet.

[TennisManiac]

Originally Posted by sstchur

"string low for depth, and string tighter if you're shots are frequently flying long."

I'm not 100% sure, but I do believe there have been some studies that suggest a lower tension doesn't increase power (at least not very much) but what it does do is change the trajectory at which the ball leaves the string bed. This can help you gain depth on your shots, if that's something you're lacking, and depth is very naturally one way that we might perceive we're getting more power.

Adding mass to the racquet however, can indeed increase power. It's simply the physics of it. If you increase the mass of the racquet and swing at the same speed, you will indeed impart more speed to the ball. If you add weight and swing FASTER, you'll get even MORE power, and if you add weight but swing slower, you might not be gaining any power at all.

Very well said. Simple, short and accurate answer.

[smirker]

Originally Posted by floide

I'm a 4.0-4.5 player which recently returned to the courts after a 8-year absence. Got my IG Prestiges some weeks ago, as I played almost my whole life with the PC600s (sold ). Always liked the Prestiges, despite the not-so-low power, which I used to fix with a little lead.

Ok, so we all know that some grams in the hoop leads to power boost. But now that I string around 40 lbs - instead of the 60 lbs which I've always been used to -, the power increase was good enough for me! No lead necessary. (And I bought 4 packages of it!)

So, here's my question: If the goal is to increase power, and assuming you're happy with the frame's weight and stability, is there any actual difference between lowering the tension or adding lead? Issues about different levels of control, maybe?

For me it's not about increasing power, more of a feel thing. Lead tape on a racquet just makes it feel so much more solid and can help to reduce the feeling of harshness. I add lead to all my frames and they play much better for it.

[spaceman_spiff]

Originally Posted by KenC

Absolutely not. 5-6 grams is fine, but when I see/hear that people are putting 15g or more on the hoop or anywhere else I have to wonder why they don't just find a better match that doesn't need so much alteration.

Because sometimes there isn't anything out there that is a better match.

For example, I've found that my ideal frame is something with a roundish 100" head and 18x20 string pattern (Speed MP 18x20, EXO Tour 18x20, 200 Plus). But, I play best with a very high swingweight that allows me to generate power with smooth swings rather than fast swings. So, my only option is to buy one of the frames listed above and add a bunch of lead.

If someone were to make a frame that was closer to my liking in stock form, then I would switch to it. But, no one does at the moment, so I don't have that option.

[corbind]

Originally Posted by ChicagoJack

Hi Floide,

I'll do my best to provide a simple answer to a question that could fill many chapters in a book.

1. Add more mass to the hoop = swing the same speed, get more ball velocity, and get more stability on off center hits. Less maneuverability.

2. Lower tension = swing the same speed, get more ball velocity, (although you'd be surprised by how exceedingly small the increase is) No stability increase. Less directional control on off center hits. No changes in maneuverability.

Longer answer: When you hit the ball off center, we all know what happens, the ball wobbles over the net like a wounded duck with out much pace or spin. Adding mass to the hoop will help counteract this event we are all familiar with. Lowering tension does nothing to increase stability on off center shots. In fact, looser tensions create a wider range of possible deflection angles, which translates into less directional control when struck outside center. In addition, the ball stays on the string bed slightly longer during the 3-5ms contact, which tends to exacerbate slight timing errors, as the racquet (and with it the ball) change elevation from low to to high, on a typical topspin groundie for example.

Something in the way you have phrased the question kinda makes me think you are overlooking perhaps the most important bennies of adding lead? If you take stability off the table, then the choice btwn lower tension and adding more mass seems pretty equivalent. But that benefit is never off the table, and when you factor that in instead of factoring it out the issue gets a whole lot simpler! Hope this helps.

-Jack

As usual you words provide a simple way to understand a complex subject.

[corners]

Originally Posted by floide

I'm a 4.0-4.5 player which recently returned to the courts after a 8-year absence. Got my IG Prestiges some weeks ago, as I played almost my whole life with the PC600s (sold ). Always liked the Prestiges, despite the not-so-low power, which I used to fix with a little lead.

Ok, so we all know that some grams in the hoop leads to power boost. But now that I string around 40 lbs - instead of the 60 lbs which I've always been used to -, the power increase was good enough for me! No lead necessary. (And I bought 4 packages of it!)

So, here's my question: If the goal is to increase power, and assuming you're happy with the frame's weight and stability, is there any actual difference between lowering the tension or adding lead? Issues about different levels of control, maybe?

Lowering tension by 20 pounds, assuming you are still using the same string type (nylon, poly or gut), will give you an extra 1 mile per hour on your shots, max. The "power" you are experiencing is actually greater depth that is a result of the higher launch angle off of your strings. A higher launch angle is a known result of dropping string tension and results in a higher trajectory, so your ball lands deeper in the court. Your launch angle will also vary to a greater degree, shot to shot, depending on your opponent's shot speed and spin. In other words your control will suffer.

Adding 3 grams of lead at 12 o'clock will also give you about 1 mile per hour on your shots, if you swing at the same speed as before. However, you will still have the same control as without lead. Additionally, volleys and blocked returns will be significantly more powerful, as on shots with short strokes the inherent power of the racquet is more significant to generating pace. (On groundstrokes and serves your swingspeed is much more important to pace than your racquet.) Conversely, volleys and blocked returns with loose strings can be somewhat unpredictable.

A better idea than dropping tension by 20 pounds is to switch to natural gut. It will give you about 3 mph extra compared to copoly strings and you can string it tight for control with no loss of power.

[UCSF2012]

I havn't visited this thread in a long while, do you have your answer yet?

Lead around the hoop changes the moment of inertia of the racket. The ball just behaves differently leaving the stringbed. With lead, the sweetspot is more focused. With lower tension, the sweetspot is broad and unfocused. Lots of misc differences, but they may not matter to you.

I can cut sharper angles with lead. With lower tension, I get increased power. With lead, I get increased power, but for some reason I can make wide serves spin wider, and backhand angles have sharper angles. I don't understand the precise physics behind this, but I've noticed these subtle differences.

[UCSF2012]

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ray

Hey kid, you of all people should not be calling others idiots (see posts below). You think studying physics or going to school for any particular, narrow field somehow gives you knowledge in all aspects of life and makes you smart? Well it doesn't work that way. You study physics, you learn about physics. It doesn't elevate you to some status where you would be calling people idiots.








I'd suggest calling up TW and asking if their Juice (100) frame is filled with foam. I'm pretty sure TW doesn't get their frames from e bay.

Too many random things to respond to....

My stance remains teh same. Pro women tennis players do not use lead, by far. Are there exceptions? Yup. Petko and Kirilenko visibly use lead. But the truth still remains, the vast majority of pro women do not use lead. This is in stark contrast to the mens, where a seemingly significant percentage of players use lead.

I'm going to continue calling them idiots if they continue to misuse high school physics to incorrectly describe "tennis physics." If you don't know what F=ma means, don't use it. Not once has it been used correctly on TT. Too often, it has been used to justify false claims.