FH update, introducing the FH-Lag (video)

[tdk]

Hi, have been more or less away for 3y due to a shoulder injury. More so, Ive been stuck on what seens a terminally intermediate level. However, last week I stumbled onto a video on youtube explaining the secrets behind the so called FH-Lag. It showed me a move that I had not been aware of before. When I went out on court and gave it a try I was immediatly rewarded with excellent ground strokes. Suddenly I was able to put spinn on the ball and controll it like never before. Solid, hard and consistant FH's, what more can you aske for.

Here is the video: http://youtu.be/YH_0_ua1-VA

For anyone not aware of the move let me try to explain it. Note Im not a pro, just an entusiastic 50y old tennis player so maybe Im explaining and/or doing it all wrong. Its best spotted in my starting shot from clip 2.

Insted of pointing the racket 180deg away from the oncomming ball and swing it from there Im pointing it 90deg to the side, at the camera. Its too simple to be true. For me there was nothing more to it. Just angling the racket to the side insted of to the back. As I start to swing my arm at the ball the racket head remains pritty much in the same place. So my arm is swinging at the ball but my racket head "lags" behind. As I contact the ball my racket head has caught up with the rest of the hand and after I hit the ball the racket will swing through and past my arm. We are talking about racket head accelleration and speed. This requires a loose wrist.

I have been using the same technique on my BH and my serve without understanding what I was doing or that it could be used for my FH as well. Well, better late than never.

Thats all for this time. Hope to hear some comments from players out there that have some input on this topic. And give me pointers on how to go from here.

Thanks, Tom

[mightyrick]

It's called the stretch-shortening cycle forehand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4IIl4HPe0

[WildVolley]

You are hitting more of the ATP-style forehand. While this discussion ticks off supporters of WTA-style takebacks for amateurs, I think that most men don't need to take the racket behind the shoulder to get pace.

Good job and some nice hitting.

[Cheetah]

Watch this video. Specifically where he talks about 'turning the hand': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ccud4yjHbM

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by tdk

Insted of pointing the racket 180deg away from the oncomming ball and swing it from there Im pointing it 90deg to the side, at the camera. Its too simple to be true. For me there was nothing more to it. Just angling the racket to the side insted of to the back. As I start to swing my arm at the ball the racket head remains pritty much in the same place. So my arm is swinging at the ball but my racket head "lags" behind. As I contact the ball my racket head has caught up with the rest of the hand and after I hit the ball the racket will swing through and past my arm. We are talking about racket head accelleration and speed. This requires a loose wrist.

That is how I and most players I know, male or female, hit the ball. It is just the pat the dog kind of motion. Pointing it 90 degrees to the side works because you are also turning your body sideways, which adds another 90 degrees, which makes the total 180 degrees. At the extreme end of your backswing, it is 180 degrees to the ball.

[tdk]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

You are hitting more of the ATP-style forehand. While this discussion ticks off supporters of WTA-style takebacks for amateurs, I think that most men don't need to take the racket behind the shoulder to get pace.

Good job and some nice hitting.

Thanks. However, Im not sure I understand the difference between ATP and WTA style forehands! Are you saying that my takeback ala ATP is short but ok for me while most amateurs are better off using a WTA style longer back take forehands?

[tdk]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Watch this video. Specifically where he talks about 'turning the hand': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ccud4yjHbM

Are you saying that I dont turn the hand enough?

[tdk]

Originally Posted by sureshs

That is how I and most players I know, male or female, hit the ball. It is just the pat the dog kind of motion. Pointing it 90 degrees to the side works because you are also turning your body sideways, which adds another 90 degrees, which makes the total 180 degrees. At the extreme end of your backswing, it is 180 degrees to the ball.

Yes, you are right. My racket points towards the back but isnt that part of the LAG of the racket head? I mean that my takeback takes the racket to aprox 90deg and yes my body turns and that adds a bit of backswing but the the racket does not point 180deg back before I am swinging my arm forward. Lagging the racket head behind. Pointing it back? Or?

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by tdk

Thanks. However, Im not sure I understand the difference between ATP and WTA style forehands! Are you saying that my takeback ala ATP is short but ok for me while most amateurs are better off using a WTA style longer back take forehands?

The short takeback which keeps the racket head from going back behind the line of the shoulders in the takeback has become the standard on the ATP Tour (there are, of course, rare exceptions). Usually, this is also combined with a "pat the dog movement" which has a relatively closed racket face at the end of the backswing leading into the forward swing.

Let me make it clear that I think this is the technique that should be taught to most men because it still allows plenty of power while shortening the stroke length and therefore making timing slightly easier.

Most WTA players allow the racket head to remain above the hand and behind the line of the shoulders at the end of the backswing. It is longer swing which allows people to potentially develop more power, but I believe it makes timing more difficult.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by sureshs

That is how I and most players I know, male or female, hit the ball. It is just the pat the dog kind of motion. Pointing it 90 degrees to the side works because you are also turning your body sideways, which adds another 90 degrees, which makes the total 180 degrees. At the extreme end of your backswing, it is 180 degrees to the ball.

Whooaaah! When did you change your opinion? Or am I misremembering things?

I thought you were a defender of the WTA technique for amateur players?

I apologize in advance if I'm confusing you with someone else.

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I thought you were a defender of the WTA technique for amateur players?

By "WTA technique", you basically mean arming the ball, right?

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by tdk

Are you saying that I dont turn the hand enough?

yes. you finish w/ your racquet exactly how jeff says ppl do in that video. you're making good contact but you are basically putting on the brakes or using some kind of force to stop the racquet. so not only is it not good for you it also not pretty.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

Whooaaah! When did you change your opinion? Or am I misremembering things?

I thought you were a defender of the WTA technique for amateur players?

I apologize in advance if I'm confusing you with someone else.

That is because I don't find such big differences in the WTA forehands as others seem to see which make a difference from the club player point of view. I cannot imagine claiming that my FH is closer to Nadal's than Serena's, because it is well below both of them.

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

yes. you finish w/ your racquet exactly how jeff says ppl do in that video. you're making good contact but you are basically putting on the brakes or using some kind of force to stop the racquet. so not only is it not good for you it also not pretty.

It looks to me like he's just tightening up the grip and the wrist just before contact which results in that overly tight finish. Said differently, things look loose until just before contact... and that's when he "arms" the swing.

OP, if you'd just keep that wrist loose and allow it to release naturally without forcibly tightening your grip/arm/elbow... I think you'd see a better result.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by sureshs

That is because I don't find such big differences in the WTA forehands as others seem to see which make a difference from the club player point of view. I cannot imagine claiming that my FH is closer to Nadal's than Serena's, because it is well below both of them.

I don't get it?

Of course it is possible to be much worse than Nadal or Serena yet still have form that is more like Serena than Nadal, for example.

The OP has a fh that is more like Federer's in takeback and transition than Serena's. These are just objective facts based on what his arm and racket are doing during the transition.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by mightyrick

By "WTA technique", you basically mean arming the ball, right?

Yeah that is the kind of opinion I see here in this context. They are not "arming" the ball. I remember all the claims that ATP was pull and WTA was push, and what not.

DP is a little different from Fed, for example. There was someone who actually claimed it was a WTA style FH.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I don't get it?

Of course it is possible to be much worse than Nadal or Serena yet still have form that is more like Serena than Nadal, for example.

The OP has a fh that is more like Federer's in takeback and transition than Serena's. These are just objective facts based on what his arm and racket are doing during the transition.

Fed is not the only ATP player

[tdk]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

yes. you finish w/ your racquet exactly how jeff says ppl do in that video. you're making good contact but you are basically putting on the brakes or using some kind of force to stop the racquet. so not only is it not good for you it also not pretty.

Hi, thanks for the clarification. I see what you mean. That should not be a big modification to my follow through. Gotto start working on that as soon as I can. Is that what was called the wind shield wiper move?

I think the thing that slows my racket down is that Im quite stiff in my upper body and my shoulders. Not allowing for a relaxed follow through. Also my shoulder injury prevents me from too much rotation while I swing.

[tdk]

Originally Posted by mightyrick

It looks to me like he's just tightening up the grip and the wrist just before contact which results in that overly tight finish. Said differently, things look loose until just before contact... and that's when he "arms" the swing.

OP, if you'd just keep that wrist loose and allow it to release naturally without forcibly tightening your grip/arm/elbow... I think you'd see a better result.

Hi, thanks for your posting. I think you are onto something here. I can feel how my wrist is not relaxed enough especially at contact and beyond. I need to work on this. I think this is the key to solving the follow through problem. Thanks.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Fed is not the only ATP player

Huh?

So you deny that there is a difference in forehand technique between the top ten ATP players and the top ten WTA players? I would be willing to bet you a large sum of money that the majority of the men don't take the racket tip back past the line of the shoulders on most rally fhs and that the majority of the WTA players do.

I'm not the only person to have noticed this. Here's a very good video on the differences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0uCQBiH2Ko

Enjoy, and hopefully we haven't derailed the OP's thread.