Combo league frustration

[gmatheis]

Originally Posted by JoelDali

Mixed doubles is destroying the game. It must be eradicated. Just. Stop. Now.

I believe this is womens combo, not mixed.

[goober]

Originally Posted by sureshs

So you are 24 and call a grandmother incompetent? What about partnering with people your age?

If you play on a team, the captain sets the lineups.

I have won playing with a grandma that was around 60. We beat a couple that was around 30ish. My grandma could volley though No mobility, weak groundstrokes, but could put anything away hit to her at the net.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by goober

If you play on a team, the captain sets the lineups.

I have won playing with a grandma that was around 60. We beat a couple that was around 30ish. My grandma could volley though No mobility, weak groundstrokes, but could put anything away hit to her at the net.

How many teams would have a 24 year old and 60 year old together?

[goober]

Originally Posted by sureshs

How many teams would have a 24 year old and 60 year old together?

I am guessing you haven't played on many teams. In regular adult team tennis both mens and mixed, pretty much every team I have played on has had players in their 60s and players in their 20s.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by goober

I am guessing you haven't played on many teams. In regular adult team tennis both mens and mixed, pretty much every team I have played on has had players in their 60s and players in their 20s.

It sometimes happens in the social matches that I play, but I just found it surprising that someone in their 20s would agree to play with a player in the 60s when they have a choice and know it can happen.

I can say for sure that it is very rare for the 3.5 and 4.0 USTA men's teams which play out of my club.

The entire timeline is shifted for these different ages (due to work, school, etc or lack thereof) so I don't even see them hitting together.

[Maui19]

Originally Posted by UCSF2012

Once, I was paired with a grandmother. The other team totally sucked, but I had the grandmother. Eventually, I told her to cover the allies. I'd play expanded singles (I was 24 and can still run like mad.)

Why would you have her cover the allies? They're on your side.

[goober]

Originally Posted by sureshs

It sometimes happens in the social matches that I play, but I just found it surprising that someone in their 20s would agree to play with a player in the 60s when they have a choice and know it can happen.

I can say for sure that it is very rare for the 3.5 and 4.0 USTA men's teams which play out of my club.

The entire timeline is shifted for these different ages (due to work, school, etc or lack thereof) so I don't even see them hitting together.

Well all our teams play at night so no problem for either age group. I have never had a player in his 20s refuse to play with a player in his 60s when assigned by the captain. In our practice sessions, young and old players play together all the time. I don't see what is the big deal. Why have some young players refuse to play with you or something?

[Mike Y]

Originally Posted by sureshs

It sometimes happens in the social matches that I play, but I just found it surprising that someone in their 20s would agree to play with a player in the 60s when they have a choice and know it can happen.

I can say for sure that it is very rare for the 3.5 and 4.0 USTA men's teams which play out of my club.

The entire timeline is shifted for these different ages (due to work, school, etc or lack thereof) so I don't even see them hitting together.

This (old + young partnership) happens a lot in my experience. I am younger (34), and I actually mostly mostly prefer playing with the older people, even 60+. If they are at or near my level, then that means that they have lots of skills that make up for speed and athletic ability. Usually that means that their volleys are good and they can get a lot of spin on both serves. I can cover a lot of the court, so I can just park them at the net and I can cover 75% of the court. My partner will make them pay if they target his corner, and I can take care of the rest of the court. Works for me. And it likely works for the older folk, they don't have to cover as much court as they would if they were with another older person, and I'll happily chase down all those lobs. Younger people will often make strategic or mental errors, and I despise when my partners make dumb mistakes. Give me the smarter and less athletic player any day.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by goober

Well all our teams play at night so no problem for either age group. I have never had a player in his 20s refuse to play with a player in his 60s when assigned by the captain. In our practice sessions, young and old players play together all the time. I don't see what is the big deal. Why have some young players refuse to play with you or something?

I see what you did there

Actually, I am sought out by parents of juniors and their coaches to hit with them, and pride myself on the fact that all my singles partners are my age or much younger. But on certain days I am forced to play doubles with old guys due to the block booking of courts.

What I see is a huge gulf between the junior population and the rest of the players. It seems players disappear from 18-40.

A good player in his/her 20s is less likely to be the type who has learnt as an adult, but more likely someone who has played in school or college. I would imagine they would be more than 4.0 in rating and bored by old folks.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Mike Y

This (old + young partnership) happens a lot in my experience. I am younger (34), and I actually mostly mostly prefer playing with the older people, even 60+. If they are at or near my level, then that means that they have lots of skills that make up for speed and athletic ability. Usually that means that their volleys are good and they can get a lot of spin on both serves. I can cover a lot of the court, so I can just park them at the net and I can cover 75% of the court. My partner will make them pay if they target his corner, and I can take care of the rest of the court. Works for me. And it likely works for the older folk, they don't have to cover as much court as they would if they were with another older person, and I'll happily chase down all those lobs. Younger people will often make strategic or mental errors, and I despise when my partners make dumb mistakes. Give me the smarter and less athletic player any day.

Well, I had more 24 in mind than 34.

I would also certainly prefer the smarter and consistent player as partner compared to the "Sampras" who double faults most of the time, but in the end your level is not improving by playing with such people. You just become better at playing people of those level. I would rather play with someone with packs a big serve and a huge topspin forehand and offers a glimpse of the great world beyond the club.

[Mike Y]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Well, I had more 24 in mind than 34.

I would also certainly prefer the smarter and consistent player as partner compared to the "Sampras" who double faults most of the time, but in the end your level is not improving by playing with such people. You just become better at playing people of those level. I would rather play with someone with packs a big serve and a huge topspin forehand and offers a glimpse of the great world beyond the club.

Hey, I still have the athletic ability of a 20 year old! I think.

But if anything, it improves my level of play. I have to constantly hit on the run and hit winners and offensive shots, and not make errors. But I am a singles player, I don't care as much about doubles, but playing doubles with anyone keeps my volleys sharp. And I'm a 4.5, it's not like I am playing with ancient 3.5s who never move. I sometimes play with a 62 year old 4.5, but you would guess that he is in his early 50s if you saw him. But when I play singles it is almost always with the younger people.

[NTRPolice]

Dont underestimate people the age of someones grandparents. Some of them can actually be pretty good. They may not be too mobile, but they can definitely hit and can usually volley very well. There are definitely be some skilled players (in doubles especially) that are 45-55 years old, some can even be pushing mid 60's depending.

I saw this 4.5 lady once who was like 5'0, 145 lbs. I actually looked up her NTRP after the round robin doubles charity tournament I played her in and her record in adult league was like 7-4 which is definitely respectable. She was a real ball-buster too. I wanna say shes like a Col. in the Air Force or something haha.

[LeeD]

I remember, back in '78, when the local A/Open top 5 woman (NorCal) became a grandmother for the first time. Big party for her at GoldenGatePark, and lots of other top women showed up for that day.
A/Open.
Would be most of us pretty handily.

[Cindysphinx]

OP,

First, a bit of sympathy. Then, a bit of a challenge.

I totally feel your pain. I have been the higher-rated player at 5.5, 6.5 and now 7.5 ladies combo. I have been smoked by experienced opponents who ganged up on my partner, and you are right that it isn't fun.

Making matters worse for you is that ratings come out soon, and you may have faced two 4.0s in 3.5 clothing. So you have permission to sulk, but only for about twenty minutes.

So much for the sympathy. Now let's talk challenge.

I say you should keep playing 7.5, with this partner and other partners. Playing combo is very good for your game. It will sharpen your ability to diagnose the match, quickly. You will need to figure out your partner's strengths and use them to maximum advantage while also figuring out how to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. You will need to dominate the play, finishing the point at the first conceivable opportunity. If you took a double-bagel beatdown, that suggests you have some real work to do in these areas.

This time, it sounds like you had a 3.5 partner with no groundies/passing shots and minimal volleys. Your opponents targeted and isolated her, and there was little you could do.

When this happens to me, I try to disrupt my opponents. Make them less confident about exactly how they could get the ball to your partner. There is no way your partner will begin producing strokes she doesn't have, so you need to focus more on tactics and strategies you can execute as a team.

There are two easy ways to do this. One is with signaled poaches. Once you two start signaling (with the net player throwing a fake every time she signals stay), a lot of opponents will start to freak out. They will change their return, and that is enough to generate errors.

The other thing you could have tried was Aussie. Aussie (where both of you line up on the same side and the server crosses to cover the DTL) is a blessing when you have a net player who cannot volley. You can put your partner's FH volley in the middle for the entire match. You can challenge your opponents to hit unfamiliar returns, with court geometry working against them.

Another thing you personally can try is starting every point at net from a different position. I have turned around matches by starting in no man's land. Opponents aren't sure what I am going to do, which throws them off. (Sure, they could rip a groundie at my feet, except they aren't capable of ripping anything at anyone's feet.)

Also good is what a friend of mine calls "The Pterodactyl" (sp?). When your partner steps up to serve, you have one foot in the alley. As the serve is on its way, you slowly creep toward the middle, splitting when the opponent hits. Visually, this movement seems to close the return window for the returner more than it actually does -- kind of like a huge bird of prey swooping in for the kill. The returner will suddenly be confused about whether to try to go behind you, squeeze a better angle, or lob.

Also, consider your serve order. Combo teams often have the 4.0 serve first for no other reason than she is the 4.0. This is often a mistake. The 3.5 surely knows how to serve. She may not be quite as good as poaching as you are (or should be). The stronger formation often is the 3.5 serving and the 4.0 being a nuisance at the net.

I guess my point is that when you play combo with a weak partner, you have to rummage through your entire tool kit. If you get to the end of the match and you have used all of your "tricks," then the match just wasn't winnable.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Also good is what a friend of mine calls "The Pterodactyl" (sp?). When your partner steps up to serve, you have one foot in the alley. As the serve is on its way, you slowly creep toward the middle, splitting when the opponent hits. Visually, this movement seems to close the return window for the returner more than it actually does -- kind of like a huge bird of prey swooping in for the kill. The returner will suddenly be confused about whether to try to go behind you, squeeze a better angle, or lob.

Thanks I was waiting for that opening. I must inform you about some knowledge gained by watching the Science channel. Dinosaurs, Plesiosaurs (the water ones) and Pterodactyls were 3 different lines of descent from common ancestors. The Pterodactyls did not eventually become birds as you might think - the Dinosaurs did!

[Cindysphinx]

I am sticking with Pterodactyls. I do not think a Dinosaur would have much reach on the volley.

[Maui19]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Thanks I was waiting for that opening. I must inform you about some knowledge gained by watching the Science channel. Dinosaurs, Plesiosaurs (the water ones) and Pterodactyls were 3 different lines of descent from common ancestors. The Pterodactyls did not eventually become birds as you might think - the Dinosaurs did!

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Mauvaise]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I am sticking with Pterodactyls. I do not think a Dinosaur would have much reach on the volley.

Coincidentally enough, my friend (4.0 to my lowly 3.0) will accuse me of having "Tyrannosaurus Rex arms" when I get too close to my forehands.

[Eightmarky]

Originally Posted by Playtennis

So i played 7.5 combo today. Im a 4.0 and my partner was a 3.5. We played against two 3.5s and got double bagled. I was demoralized. I have to be honest i played fair- not terrible but ive played much better- but my partner could not hit a single volley. She hated to volley and was not good. I was essentially playing canadian doubles all night becue i was at net- she wS back and they picked on her. I feel like there is such a disparity in skill aet between doubles at 3.5 v 4.0 level it makes combo not fun! Anyone have similar experiences? Thank goodness doesnt affect rating! Thanks.

You should play 8.5 combo if you want to have a good partner.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I am sticking with Pterodactyls. I do not think a Dinosaur would have much reach on the volley.

Have you seen a Pterodactlyl move on land? Neither have I. But they supposedly could just drag themselves slowly with a shuffling motion. Kind of like some doubles players.