NTRP Questions...

[Mike Y]

I call shenanigans. Sorry, I'm not going to just believe some random person on the internet who can't even spell "league" right.

[leaugeCO]

Originally Posted by SweetH2O

I appreciate you being here to answer questions. Very generous of you.

Your answer above is different than what is said in the link below. Could this be another difference from section to section?
http://www.atlanta.usta.com/Dynamic_...namic_NTRPFAQ/

They did not count in the past. But can assure you that nation wide they count. That is not something sections have leeway on

[leaugeCO]

Originally Posted by rtl11

Weakest 4.0 men vs strongest 4.0 woman is 6-4 6-4.

These are the kinds of statements that spread false information... There are 5 people in the country with access to the expected outcomes chart. So unless on of them gave you the information, which they aren't supposed to do then this has no proof

[leaugeCO]

Originally Posted by mikeler

How far back in time do these calculations go? I played NTRP tournaments years ago, will that always effect my top secret rating even as I get older?

Rating are valid for three years. After that you have to self rate, you may now only come back at the last rating you played, unless you file a selfrate appeal

[leaugeCO]

Originally Posted by Mike Y

I call shenanigans. Sorry, I'm not going to just believe some random person on the internet who can't even spell "league" right.

1) I called myself out on that typo, everyone is quick to troll spelling online

2) that's completely fine be me, I don't need your approval. Not sure why anyone would pose as a USTA employee to provide false answers for LEAGUE tennis though.

[goober]

Originally Posted by leaugeCO

You are correct... Typo/unintentional omit on my part (happens a bit as you can see from the one in my user name). Sections/districts (some sections ultimately let the districts decide) have the option on what counts, however they must specifically opt out as the default is to include all tournaments/leagues. The vast majority of the 17 sections do use tournaments however.

Well when you say that sanctioned tournaments definitely do count, but they actually don't in some cases, then there is nothing definite about it at all. The largest section in the USTA, the southern section, does not count them. That is not exactly a small exception (180,000+ members) wouldn't you agree?. Pacific Northwest also doesn't.

I am getting the picture that you know your local rules very well. The national picture I am not as sure.

[tenniscasey]

Originally Posted by goober

Well when you say that sanctioned tournaments definitely do count, but they actually don't in some cases, then there is nothing definite about it at all. The largest section in the USTA, the southern section, does not count them. That is not exactly a small exception (180,000+ members) wouldn't you agree?. Pacific Northwest also doesn't.

I am getting the picture that you know your local rules very well. The national picture I am not as sure.

I'm no expert on the Southern section, but #12 on this list disagrees with you. It looks out of date, but I'm not sure the rule would have changed to exclude NTRP tournaments from the national NTRP rating. That just seems illogical.

http://www.southern.usta.com/How-To/..._System__FAQs/

Also found http://www.southern.usta.com/USA-Lea...e_NTRP_System/ (see #2)

I looked at the Southern rules and regs, and the bylaws, and none of them address whether tournament results affect NTRP.

Not trying to overkill this, but I find this question / concern interesting. Is there a more general source than a 2010 Atlanta local page that explains the Southern section does?

[beernutz]

Originally Posted by tenniscasey

I'm no expert on the Southern section, but #12 on this list disagrees with you. It looks out of date, but I'm not sure the rule would have changed to exclude NTRP tournaments from the national NTRP rating. That just seems illogical.

http://www.southern.usta.com/How-To/..._System__FAQs/

Also found http://www.southern.usta.com/USA-Lea...e_NTRP_System/ (see #2)

I looked at the Southern rules and regs, and the bylaws, and none of them address whether tournament results affect NTRP.

Not trying to overkill this, but I find this question / concern interesting. Is there a more general source than a 2010 Atlanta local page that explains the Southern section does?

Tournament results do not count towards dynamic NTRP in Southern. See 2.05A in this link: http://assets.usta.com/assets/638/15..._Regs_2012.pdf

Those FAQs are hopelessly out of date. You have to look at the current league regulations. The link to those including the link above is found here: http://www.southern.usta.com/USA-Lea...=headernavsub2

[Clive Walker]

Just a quick thought- 6-3, 6-3, can be a one or two break set.

Surely there is a differentiation here as a 2 break set is very different to a 1 break set.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by Clive Walker

Just a quick thought- 6-3, 6-3, can be a one or two break set.

Surely there is a differentiation here as a 2 break set is very different to a 1 break set.

except ... If one of the sets is 1 break and the other has to be 2 breaks and vice versa. This is a three break match.

[Clive Walker]

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

except ... If one of the sets is 1 break and the other has to be 2 breaks and vice versa. This is a three break match.

So how do the various possible permutations affect the rating?

Not that I care really, I just wondered whether it was taken into account

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by leaugeCO

1) I called myself out on that typo, everyone is quick to troll spelling online

2) that's completely fine be me, I don't need your approval. Not sure why anyone would pose as a USTA employee to provide false answers for LEAGUE tennis though.

Hello LeagueCO, and welcome to AlGorhytm's internet, brimming with paranoia and the need for perfectionism--in others. I admire your courage and fortitude to wade into the murky waters here. I believe you stated you are relatively new to being a league CO so perhaps you will use this as a useful training tool to practice the situations that you may face under heavier fire someday, like having to disqualify Serena Williams for foot-faulting on match point at the USO.

You are in a great position to clarify the mysteries of the NTRP numbers game that are an endless source of Monday morning quarterbacking here. There's another brave fellow here, Woodrow, an umpire, who has been an invaluable source of edumacating us ignorant of the rules and lost tennis souls here. Now if we could only get Lindsay Crawford/Crawford Lindsay, from TW University, to make cameo appearances to tell us "It's not the violin, but the violinist", when it comes to smacking the fuzzy yellow sphere.

I would personally like to know how you feel Senior Age Group tournies fit into the grand scheme of USTA tennis, what you think of their future and how they interdigitate with NTRP league tennis--or don't?

You seem to have the cojones to stick around and I for one hope you do. LCO, just pretend you've time traveled and you're facing the Spanish Inquisition--they probably played some form of court tennis back then. It's a little know fact, that Christopher Columbus, was not really looking for the western passage to India in 1492, but instead exploring for rubber to make proper tennis balls (Dunlop Grand Prix) and rain-coats to keep dry in the stands at the USO.

Cheers you brave fellow or are you a lady?

[tenniscasey]

Originally Posted by beernutz

Tournament results do not count towards dynamic NTRP in Southern. See 2.05A in this link: http://assets.usta.com/assets/638/15..._Regs_2012.pdf

Those FAQs are hopelessly out of date. You have to look at the current league regulations. The link to those including the link above is found here: http://www.southern.usta.com/USA-Lea...=headernavsub2

Thanks, that's a much better link than what I found last night.

I also found this answer http://www.usta.com/Play-Tennis/USTA...uestions/#4372 from the USTA national site. It confirms that sections have the option for including sanctioned tournament results for year-end ratings.

[tenniscasey]

Originally Posted by leaugeCO

They did not count in the past. But can assure you that nation wide they count. That is not something sections have leeway on

This is demonstrably not true, based on the USTA link I just posted above. +1 on the shenanigans; I'm going to get my broom.

[goober]

Originally Posted by tenniscasey

I'm no expert on the Southern section, but #12 on this list disagrees with you. It looks out of date, but I'm not sure the rule would have changed to exclude NTRP tournaments from the national NTRP rating. That just seems illogical.
?

Out of date

2012 regulations:

2.05A Applicability. The regulations in this section are applicable to the Adult, Senior, Super Senior, and Mixed
divisions. Players may appeal their NTRP rating in accordance with the procedures of the USTA NTRP Computer
Rating System and their State Appeal Procedures. Match results from NTRP Tournaments in TennisLink will NOT
be included in the 2011 year-end ratings.

The main reason I could see for excluding NTRP tournaments is that people were using them as a means to manage their ratings i.e enter a couple tournaments near the end of the year and lose badly to make sure you don't get bumped.

I am not an expert on the Southern section or NTRP rating system either. But if you claim to be one- uh you better know what you are talking about or you won't have much credibility.

[tenniscasey]

Originally Posted by goober

Out of date

2012 regulations:

The main reason I could see for excluding NTRP tournaments is that people were using them as a means to manage their ratings i.e enter a couple tournaments near the end of the year and lose badly to make sure you don't get bumped.

I am not an expert on the Southern section or NTRP rating system either. But if you claim to be one- uh you better know what you are talking about or you won't have much credibility.

Shenanigans +2! Thanks for the additional insight.

[anubis]

Are they going to really get rid of the "let" call next year?

[Mongolmike]

Roughly speaking, what type of numerical factor does the benchmark carry:

-for the player who is benchmarked by being on a team that will be in Nationals, does the player/team that is in Nationals automatically get bumped up?


-for the player (me) who beat this now benchmarked player...

we played this team twice in league. I beat two of their players in singles... so now I have wins vs two benchmarked players. How significant is this in factoring my chance for getting bumped up?

(Their first player was 4-3 in league, I beat him 6-4 6-3 and I think we both know I have his number if we play again. He went 2-0 in doubles in the ******* sectionals.

The second player "joined" the team late... wink, wink, nudge, nudge. He was 0-2 in league, I beat him 6-2 7-6 and I think he is gonna get a lot better quickly. I think because of his youth and tennis center connections it won't take long before he has a clear edge if we play again. He played singles 0-1 in districts, 1-1 in states, 2-2 in ******* sectional.)

edit: lol.... the word "M I D west" is forbidden? I understand the implication of it being a competitor to TW... but that funny

[radicalpro]

A few questions if you don't mind:
1) Couple years ago the ratings were adjusted (at least in Norcal) to more accurately reflect the ratings as in other locations. How was this done? Did everyone just get an extra fixed increase in their dynamic ratings?

2) My understanding is mixed results don't count as long as you have 3 adult league matches. So if I played 20 mixed matches with 2 adult league matches, I'd have a "M" rating based on all the mixed results. But if my friend played 20 mixed matches with 3 adult league matches, he'd have a "C" rating based on those 3 adult league matches and none of his 20 mixed would count. Is this right? If so, personally I feel that all results should count including combo, but weighted differently.

3) Why don't matches played with a full third set have that score count instead of just 1-0? Tournaments do it and a computer rating does take into account tournament results.

4) Will anything be done about self-rated players? They should get bumped up much easier.

[Setmatch45]

I have a more specific question this year I went

7-0 regular season
2-0 in districts
1-1 in sectionals

I lost to the top doubles teams 6-3,7-5 they moved on to nationals.

Early start I was not moved up. Why is that?