Ad player vs Duce player

[Cindysphinx]

Let's here from the combo players out there.

If you are playing combo, one player is presumably one USTA level stronger than the other. Which side does the lower player tend to play?

When I play 7.5 combo, I play deuce side. This is because some ladies are eaten alive on the BH return back to the server. Indeed, I sometimes partner with a lady who struggles with her FH and lacks variety on her returns. We do much better with her on the ad side because that way we don't spend two sets getting poached on the deuce side.

Here's the weird thing, though. When I captain (3.5 ladies, 7.5 ladies combo, 4.0 ladies), I usually ask the team to tell me which receiving side is their strongest. About 90% of the team replies deuce. I cannot for the life of me figure out why that is.

[SystemicAnomaly]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

... Here's the weird thing, though. When I captain (3.5 ladies, 7.5 ladies combo, 4.0 ladies), I usually ask the team to tell me which receiving side is their strongest. About 90% of the team replies deuce. I cannot for the life of me figure out why that is.

That does seem weird. I would think, at those levels, that more serves on the as side would go to the FH (where more players are comfortable). Perhaps players are not at ease with the ad side because that is where most games are decided (i.e. the last point is played). It is probably perceived as the "pressure" side since so many "game points" happen there.

[RoddickAce]

I watched one of the videos when FYB was promoting the Bryan Brothers' doubles playbook, and the Bryan Brothers said that the stronger partner should be on the ad side because most of the important points are started on the ad court.

They also said that it is easier to take overheads in the middle of the court and recover back in position if you started on the ad side.

[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Let's here from the combo players out there.

If you are playing combo, one player is presumably one USTA level stronger than the other. Which side does the lower player tend to play?

When I play 7.5 combo, I play deuce side. This is because some ladies are eaten alive on the BH return back to the server. Indeed, I sometimes partner with a lady who struggles with her FH and lacks variety on her returns. We do much better with her on the ad side because that way we don't spend two sets getting poached on the deuce side.

Here's the weird thing, though. When I captain (3.5 ladies, 7.5 ladies combo, 4.0 ladies), I usually ask the team to tell me which receiving side is their strongest. About 90% of the team replies deuce. I cannot for the life of me figure out why that is.

I play 8.5 and 9.5 mens combo. My 8.5 partner is a 4.0 with a 2HBH. He makes aggressive errors, but his 2 hander does better generating pace back across the court than my 1-handed block or slice.

I am a liability on the ad side because my returns are more likely to float and get poached. The further I'm stretched wide, the more time the net player has to poach.

On the deuce side I create better angles with my FH and even though my backhand can float, I can do a reasonable job of keeping it away from the poaching opponent (less time for him to react on his partner's T-serve).

That's probably the reasoning that most feel they are better on the deuce side. Most have stronger FH than BH and a weak BH return on ad side is more of a liability than it is on the deuce side.

[Mike Y]

I am a firm believer in that the stronger player has to play the ad side. 30-40/40-30 are by far the most important points in the match, you want your stronger player having a chance in those points. Those 30-40 break points are everything, they decide matches. And, there is less pressure on the weaker player if they are returning serve at deuce than at ad-in/ad-out. Plus, you want the stronger righty player having his/her forehand/overhead in the middle. Also, a lefty should play the deuce side. The ideal combo is a stronger righty player in the ad side, and a lefty on the deuce side. Two forehands in the middle, that's ideal.

And Cindy, what I have observed is that women usually have a "side", not necessarily the deuce or the ad side, but one or the other, much more than men have a "side". That is frustrating for me when I play Mixed and the woman refuses to play the deuce side.

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ I guess you need to move from the Bay Area over to Cindy's part of the world where 90% of the women would rather play the deuce side.

Two of the best doubles players of all time, J Mac and M Navratolova, were both lefties. I believed that they both played the ad side. I believe that more lefties play the ad side rather than the deuce side in doubles. The Bryan bros played for quite a few years with Bob, the lefty, on the ad side before switching (relatively recently).
.

[Maui19]

I play combo as the weaker player, and there is no pattern to the preferences as far as I can tell. I play with three different partners and I've played both sides with all of them. Personally, I think returning on the ad side is much more difficult in dubs. I find more guys can hit the kick serve out wide to my BH because that wide corner of the service box is farther from the server, giving them a larger margin of error (at least I find it much easier to hit the kicker out there).

None of these partners expresses a preference--instead asking me which side I like.

Personally, I ask my partner from which side they return best, and go from there.

In mixed I always try to play ad side because that's where so many of the key points originate.

[LeeD]

3 points to consider.
Who is better under pressure? That's the ad court player.
Who can return the ball without giving it to the netperson?
Play the side you can return serve.
Who can cover the middle in volley exchanges? You can cheat both players to the center if need be.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Mike Y

And Cindy, what I have observed is that women usually have a "side", not necessarily the deuce or the ad side, but one or the other, much more than men have a "side". That is frustrating for me when I play Mixed and the woman refuses to play the deuce side.

I think by the time you get to 4.0, most women can play either side. But that is not the question I ask.

If I ask the players which side they prefer, most reply, "Oh, I can play either."

If I ask the players on which side they are stronger, most reply deuce.

Interestingly, the one player who is most firmly an ad court player is just terrible on the deuce side. She struggles with her FH. She can get away with hitting slice BHs and FHs on the ad side, but she feels she cannot hit a FH well enough to avoid a poach (or lob or go DTL).

As for me, I used to play ad side all the time. I had no FH crosscourt, but I was happy to hit the FH inside out. Even in mixed, I played ad because it was better to have me get a return in the court than to donate endless points trying to take my FH crosscourt.

Thankfully, I have fixed my FH.

[LeeD]

Hence, post 28.

[tennisjon]

I am a 4.5 player, college tennis coach, and 8.0 mixed doubles player. With all being equal, you put the better player on the ad side of the court. Sometimes due to lefty/righty or a particular weapon or weakness you change, but in general its best to have the better baseliner on the ad side. Most game points are played on the ad side of the court. The better player's forehand is in the middle of the court as well.

[tennis tom]

All things being equal tennis is a game of percentages and you win by making the fewest errors. It's easy to be "strong" and hit the ball out of the park, anyone can do that, but the percentages are higher in being consistent and giving opponents the opportunity to mess-up, which usually occurs within five or six shots. My definition of "stronger" is the one who hits the ball, harder forcing errors or hitting un-returnables, but this is also lower percentage and they will also make more errors. The "consistent" player is the one who plays more conservatively, more touch, more angles, keeping the ball in play by making a lot of returns. Unless the two "arguing" pros, in the OP are seeing some glaring weakness at the 4.5 level, one is wrong.

The OP is talking 4.5, Cindy as a freshly minted 4.0, is swinging the discussion to a different level where all things are not equal and you can pretty much do whatever you want having so many variables. This is not a decision for a team captain, unless they are very astute as you can see even two "pros" have differing views. When the discussion comes up I just tell my dubs partner that my surgeon advised I play the ad side unless there's a lefty serving.

[Maui19]

Originally Posted by floridatennisdude

I play 8.5 and 9.5 mens combo. My 8.5 partner is a 4.0 with a 2HBH. He makes aggressive errors, but his 2 hander does better generating pace back across the court than my 1-handed block or slice.

I am a liability on the ad side because my returns are more likely to float and get poached. The further I'm stretched wide, the more time the net player has to poach.

On the deuce side I create better angles with my FH and even though my backhand can float, I can do a reasonable job of keeping it away from the poaching opponent (less time for him to react on his partner's T-serve).

That's probably the reasoning that most feel they are better on the deuce side. Most have stronger FH than BH and a weak BH return on ad side is more of a liability than it is on the deuce side.

Good explanation of the challenges of a 1HBH on the ad side.

[LeeD]

Comes down to which player is more effective from which side. Put them on the wrong side, they play poorly as a team.

[SystemicAnomaly]

http://www.tennisxpert.com/more-thou...es-game08.aspx

Here is another perspective on choosing which side to pick for serve returns. Of course, when facing lefty servers, the best choice might very well be different.

[maleyoyo]

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly

http://www.tennisxpert.com/more-thou...es-game08.aspx

Here is another perspective on choosing which side to pick for serve returns. Of course, when facing lefty servers, the best choice might very well be different.

This is true assuming all players are right handed; a weaker BH should play the ad court. Most rec players poach better with FH and don’t have strong high BH volley putaway, so my partner’s weaker BH cross courts will less likely to be attacked. It’s much easier for my FH from the deuce side to hit dtl against aggressive poachers comparing to my partner’s BH.

[goober]

Originally Posted by floridatennisdude

^^^as nice as "trying it out both ways" sounds, it is rarely realistic to get a sampling of any significance. People have lives and schedules don't always allow a dozen practice matches in a month before a season starts.

The most likely trial and error will happen during the matches themselves, when it counts.

If it takes you a dozen matches to find out what works, the season will be over. The way I see it any information is better than none. Even 1-2 practice session together should allow 4.5 level players to get a basic understanding of what is going to work better. This team has a head pro/coach. This type of team is not just a random bunch of gals thrown together. I am sure the head pro is running clinics or practice sessions or why would he be running this team?

[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly

http://www.tennisxpert.com/more-thou...es-game08.aspx

Here is another perspective on choosing which side to pick for serve returns. Of course, when facing lefty servers, the best choice might very well be different.

I get the logic, but a weak BH at 4.5 traveling all the way cross court gives the poaching net player so much time. Maybe this is better info for lower level doubles that don't come across a lot of aggressive net players.

[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by Maui19

Good explanation of the challenges of a 1HBH on the ad side.

I should've also stated that my 1HBH is more likely to be late, thus an inside out backhand isn't impossible.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly

http://www.tennisxpert.com/more-thou...es-game08.aspx

Here is another perspective on choosing which side to pick for serve returns. Of course, when facing lefty servers, the best choice might very well be different.

Thanks for the article SA, I'm gonna' study that one.