Alan Trengove on Rod Laver. New Article

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by jeffreyneave

1961 is not 1964. Hoad's march 1961 injury was a different injury; he pulled a tendon in his foot. He was out of action for a few months. He came back in july 1961 as a full-time tournament player; in fact he played more tournaments than Gonzales and rosewall in 1961. It was the same in 1962 as he played more tournaments than Rosewall. In 1964 he played as much overall tennis as Rosewall and more than Gonzales and Gimeno. In '64 He entered all the main tornament not withdrawing from any of them. Once he started an event he did not give any walkovers or retirements. To play as much top flight international tennis as hoad did from july 1961 to the end of 1964 and be competitive (hoad was still winning matches) means that he was basically fit to play and uninjured.

Hoad still produced a fair ammount of good performances in this period. In the second half of '61 he beat Gonzales 2 times out of three including a big win at the wembley semi-final. In '62 he beat Bucholz in a long 5 setter in the semi-final at Wembley and then extended Rosewall to 4 long sets in the final. In '63 he beat Laver 8-0 in january (He seems to have gone into extra training for this to be extra fit; maybe at other times hoad was bit casual about his fitness.) Overall though Hoad struggled to win tournaments. he did not win any in '61. '63 and '64. He won a couple in '62 when the competition was less; only Rosewall of the great players was there; Gonzales and laver did not play the pro tour in '62. In '64 with Gonzales and Laver there as well as Rosewall , Hoad really struggled with no wins from 24 attempts in tournaments.

jeffrey

jeffrey, Thanks that you disproved Dan's claim that Hoad was injured almost every day and every year...

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Whoa, whoa. Slow down.
Hoad had a CHRONIC (as in continuous) back injury from 1954 on, and an extended series of matches could always leave him unable to play.
Take a look at his pro numbers.
In 1958, he took about four or five months off recovering from back problems, and still played 110 singles matches on the American and Ampol world championships, plus several more in Europe and minor events.
In 1959, he played 109 singles matches on the two championship tours, plus many more in Europe and in minor events.
Probably about 150 singles matches in 1959, and a few less in 1958.
Probably about 60 or 70 pro singles matches in 1957 in several tours and tournaments.
Well over 300 singles matches from July 1957 to January 1, 1960.
Money winnings, about $200,000 in 1958 alone, well over $100,000 in 1959, about $400,000 in his first 2 1/2 years as a pro (dollars then worth about 20 of today's dollars), plus much more in commercial endorsements and activities. In today's money, about ten million in 2 1/2 years.
During this time, many more matches and more earnings than Laver achieved in his glory days in the 1960's, Laver played about 122 matches (perhaps including doubles?) in 1969, perhaps his busiest year.
Hoad went semi-retired in 1960, and look at how many matches he played after this.
For 1960, leave out Jan. 1, the last singles match of the 1959 season.
In 1960, including the New Zealand tour, a total of 36 singles matches. This was like a vacation after the previous three years.
Similar or fewer numbers for each subsequent year.
Plus a gain in weight, reduced mobility, recurring foot problems caused by the greater body weight which put stress on the right foot and toes.
Get the picture?
There was no "pro tour" in 1962, and Hoad tired at the end of the Wembley final with Rosewall.

Dan, Laver's busiest year was 1962.

There were several smaller pro tours in 1962.

[Dedans Penthouse]

Originally Posted by abmk

poorly written and researched IMO .......

Poppycock fanboy.

Big, fat, huge poppycock.

That is all.

[Carsomyr]

Originally Posted by Dedans Penthouse

Poppycock fanboy.

Big, fat, huge poppycock.

That is all.

What part of his statement is inaccurate? Limpinhitter, who is as big a Laver supporter as any, also said as much. I don't see how anyone can read it and not agree.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

jeffrey, Thanks that you disproved Dan's claim that Hoad was injured almost every day and every year...

Yes, he played through his injuries. The doctor who operated on his back in 1978 said that it was a miracle he could have played tennis at all.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Dan, Laver's busiest year was 1962.

There were several smaller pro tours in 1962.

How many matches did Laver play in 1962 (I mean singles matches)?

[kiki]

Originally Posted by NadalDramaQueen

I thought it was "that bloody thief."

I have always thought that clip should be the official clip for Former Pro Player Talk.

Yes, it is a serious candidate for official clip.Still wondering if we will ever see it in the internet...

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by kiki

Yes, it is a serious candidate for official clip.Still wondering if we will ever see it in the internet...

I have that full match. I will upload it if you open your mind.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

How many matches did Laver play in 1962 (I mean singles matches)?

182. He won 167...

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

182. He won 167...

That is a large number.
However, easy going in the early rounds, of course.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by NadalDramaQueen

I have that full match. I will upload it if you open your mind.

I will be able to concede the possibility to have federer in the first tier if that is the price...

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by kiki

I will be able to concede the possibility to have federer in the first tier if that is the price...

That is good to know. It really is a shame that no one will/can upload that match.

[Mustard]

So, in Laver's last year as an amateur in 1962, he had a win-loss record of 167-15, won all 4 majors, and won 22 tournaments overall.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Mustard

So, in Laver's last year as an amateur in 1962, he had a win-loss record of 167-15, won all 4 majors, and won 22 tournaments overall.

Of course, Emmo was playing with a broken foot after running into a post at Wimbledon, and Laver's toughest match at Wimbledon was against Santana.

[Mustard]

It's interesting how Emerson has a 12-3 win-loss record in major finals, and that all 3 of the losses were to Laver in 1962.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

182. He won 167...

Just to be clear....we are discussing singles matches, exclusive of doubles.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Mustard

It's interesting how Emerson has a 12-3 win-loss record in major finals, and that all 3 of the losses were to Laver in 1962.

At Forest Hills, Emmo was returning after a layoff due to a broken foot.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

At Forest Hills, Emmo was returning after a layoff due to a broken foot.

Wasn't it Emerson himself who coined the phrase "if you start the match, you're fit to play"?

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Wasn't it Emerson himself who coined the phrase "if you start the match, you're fit to play"?

Brave words, but not reality.
What he meant was, don't complain if you insist on playing.
That doesn't exclude tennis analysts from investigating the health and injuries of players as explanatory factors.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Brave words, but not reality.
What he meant was, don't complain if you insist on playing.
That doesn't exclude tennis analysts from investigating the health and injuries of players as explanatory factors.

Emerson's sentiment is correct. Injuries or not, the result is fair either way.