WB Comments on Ltr to US Tennis Industry-PART I

[TCF]

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[TCF]

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[Soianka]

Originally Posted by TCF

First of all, age 8. There is no more worthless words ever uttered than "nations top 12 year old". Its meaningless. You actually mean the 12 year old whose parents pay for early lessons, who feel the need to travel to tournament after tournament and gather points. The "nations top 12 year old" has a serve that stinks on ice. Its a worthless accolade. There is nothing important to being the 12 year old who has more points in USTA rankings than others. It means nothing in terms of actual tennis ability.

There are probably dozens of girls better from age 8-12. They just do not gather points yet so you have not heard of them. So in reality you have no clue who the best girls are.

The point is, you thinking your 8 year old daughter can beat the country's top 12 year old (by ranking) is evidence of (to quote you) "the mind of a delusional tennis parent"

[TCF]

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[coaching32yrs]

Originally Posted by Soianka

Your player was offered a scholarship years after training at a high level.

How about the kid who is a track star, excelled in soccer as a young kid (father is a soccer coach) and plays tennis but has only been coached by her parents until age 8 and then the local community tennis center coach who does not teach solid fundamentals and footwork, and does not get decent training until she is in her late teens; yet she makes it to a 4-star level, and is currently playing DI tennis.

But I guess you would have us believe that this kid would only ever be a DI player even if she had an excellent coach starting at a young age....because of the example of "your player."

I'm sorry your reality is not the same as it is for everyone else.

There is no need to condescendingly dismiss other people's experiences because they do not match your own.

When you have played thousands of matches under pressure you reach a certain level of understanding about the game. You can tell who has walked the walk. When you talk to a college coach or teaching pro they can tell you are one of them. You are an "insider" and get treated and talked to as such.
I am sorry if you find this condescending. But it is true in tennis as it is in any industry. Many on this thread are not insiders. They try, but they can't fake it. They have never played the game at a high level. TCF is an insider, as is that crazy guy who is a medical student. You can tell. TCF drank the kool aid about his daughter. That's OK. We all did that. That's why we are on here.

[TCF]

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[Soianka]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

When you have played thousands of matches under pressure you reach a certain level of understanding about the game. You can tell who has walked the walk. When you talk to a college coach or teaching pro they can tell you are one of them. You are an "insider" and get treated and talked to as such.
I am sorry if you find this condescending. But it is true in tennis as it is in any industry. Many on this thread are not insiders. They try, but they can't fake it. They have never played the game at a high level. TCF is an insider, as is that crazy guy who is a medical student. You can tell. TCF drank the kool aid about his daughter. That's OK. We all did that. That's why we are on here.

You described yourself as a "4.5 level" player.

I don't think that exactly qualifies you as "one who played the game at a high level"

or a tennis "insider," LOL

I never claimed to be a tennis expert or "insider." One need not be one to offer their personal observations.

By the way, these observations were shared by an actual top level high performance coach who coached girl referenced above later in her junior career.

Same guy who developed Grace Min and a host of other top female juniors. But I am sure you know better having never even seen the girl I am talking about play.

I bow to your expertise. Oh, great tennis "insider."

[tenniscp]

Originally Posted by TCF

But my Kool aide is pretty basic. At this moment in time, my oversized and super athletic kid who has been hitting tennis balls since 18 months and now trains with college players and other adults, can beat an 11 year old who I feel has major flaws. I do not see that as being all that big a deal.

So all and all I do not see my kool aide drinking being that delusional. Long term, I am pretty realistic about things.

I am now convinced that Number1Coach lives on under the new name "TCF" , however this time the prodigy is a little 8 year old girl!

"My oversized and super athletic kid who has been hitting tennis balls since 18 months and now trains with college players and other adults" Where have I heard that before? Brad Baughman comes to mind! He should come on this thread and promise TCF a D2 scholarship and their TW relationship will come full circle.

[Stokke]

Originally Posted by TCF

They waited until 13-14 to play tennis ONLY. Not that they played no tournies at age 12.

Yes, that was my point. They played tournaments at age 12.

Originally Posted by TCF

Nadal was torn between tennis and soccer like his famous uncle played. Nadal played elite soccer until age 13 AND still had freaky talent to play tennis. Henin has videos on You Tube of her with her soccer friends. Fed loved other sports as kids.

They played tennis AND soccer both at high levels.

They sure did. Again, my point was that they played tournaments at age 12.

Sounds like a winning formula: Play different sports - and compete from an early age.

[slice bh compliment]

Originally Posted by Soianka

You described yourself as a "4.5 level" player.

I don't think that exactly qualifies you as "one who played the game at a high level"

or a tennis "insider'

Okay, I see your point, but the man has been coaching for thirty-two years. So he's got to be in his mid-50s.
A good college player, 30 yrs removed from college tennis will probably be fine with relegation to the 4.5 level. There are many good 4.5s who could probably give him a great workout.

[coaching32yrs]

[quote=Soianka;6949519]You described yourself as a "4.5 level" player.

I don't think that exactly qualifies you as "one who played the game at a high level"

Junior tennis can be a minefield with different coaches telling parents different things. You don't know who to believe who to trust. Even the best coaches sometimes tell their junior player stuff that is just plain wrong. Same thing with in match coaching in hs and college. Player has to learn when to ignore the coach's advice. You can use this forum to learn something or to argue and insult. Your choice. My new piece of advice here- learn to ignore coach during match without insulting him/her. If coach tells you something you were thinking about doing anyway- that's ok do it. If coach tells you something off the wall, something you are not comfortable doing or doesn't make sense to you (this happens all the time) say OK- but do not do it. Now the coaches out there will kill me. That's good. Let's hear what they say.

[Soianka]

[quote=coaching32yrs;6949921]

Originally Posted by Soianka

You described yourself as a "4.5 level" player.

I don't think that exactly qualifies you as "one who played the game at a high level"

Junior tennis can be a minefield with different coaches telling parents different things. You don't know who to believe who to trust. Even the best coaches sometimes tell their junior player stuff that is just plain wrong. Same thing with in match coaching in hs and college. Player has to learn when to ignore the coach's advice. You can use this forum to learn something or to argue and insult. Your choice. My new piece of advice here- learn to ignore coach during match without insulting him/her. If coach tells you something you were thinking about doing anyway- that's ok do it. If coach tells you something off the wall, something you are not comfortable doing or doesn't make sense to you (this happens all the time) say OK- but do not do it. Now the coaches out there will kill me. That's good. Let's hear what they say.

Now, you would have me believe that the coach, who is a personal friend, and a highly respected coach when speaking frankly about what he saw as this girl's potential is less reliable than some random people on the internet claiming to be "tennis insiders" ???

Stop trying to throw around your "expertise" to dismiss opinions that differ from your own.

I simply said that money is a factor in whether a junior player meets his or her full potential.

A view held by many people with far more impressive credentials than anyone here.

[TCF]

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[TCF]

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[coaching32yrs]

Soianka I don't know what you are talking about or why you are attacking me. I'm here to help and learn. I am not commenting on the particulars of any coach or any player. My comments about coaching are in a general sense. In the vast majority of cases, not all, you can't accept 100% of what any coach says. I had differences with own kid's coach and he was and is a terrific coach. Sometimes the in game coaching in particular does not make sense. I wish someone had told me when me I was young to respectfully ignore in match coaching- unless it affirms what you were already thinking or makes good sense to you. Someone here told me about the app Coach's Eye. Great idea. Let's here some more stuff like that.

[TCF]

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[Soianka]

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

Soianka I don't know what you are talking about or why you are attacking me. I'm here to help and learn. I am not commenting on the particulars of any coach or any player. My comments about coaching are in a general sense. In the vast majority of cases, not all, you can't accept 100% of what any coach says. I had differences with own kid's coach and he was and is a terrific coach. Sometimes the in game coaching in particular does not make sense. I wish someone had told me when me I was young to respectfully ignore in match coaching- unless it affirms what you were already thinking or makes good sense to you. Someone here told me about the app Coach's Eye. Great idea. Let's here some more stuff like that.

LOL. Perhaps you should revisit your earlier post with your rude and condescending tone. Maybe then it will be clear who was "attacking" who.

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs

Some of the posters on this thread don't understand the realities of tennis. I believe they never played and competed in the sport at a high level. They freely throw around terms like could have been an elite player or world class player. They don't get it.....there is one young American male in the top 80. There are no world class players in this country who just didn't get the right opportunity and coaching. The academies and training programs are starving for top players, because they believe it attracts other full paying juniors. My player, a 4 star not an elite athlete, was offered a scholarship at a tennis program- and he didn't even ask for one! I know one player, a 3 star, training on a full scholarship. Most of the programs have 3 or 4 levels. One or 2 kids at the very top helps fill the lower levels with full paying customers. Tennis parents wrongfully believe their junior will get so much better hitting with the hotshot junior in the area.

Your above post was not about learning and teaching.

You have no idea what other people's experiences are and there is no reason to tell someone what you think their experiences are and what they do not "understand" or do not "get" and then tout yourself as a "tennis insider" in order to shut down the conversation with your authority as the last word on the topic.

It's actually quite humorous that you are now trying to pretend that I sought you out and attacked you.

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by TCF

The problem on this forum is there are many sacred cows. Most posters need the safety of conventional thinking.

A kid has the most USTA points in the 12s-14s-16s....thus they MUST be the best players that age. There can not be alternate ways of players being even better. Constant parental involvement and being up a kids tail every match MUST be the thing that helps the kid improve.....helps the parents egos. An expensive coach correcting every stroke in practice matches MUST be great, after all the parent is paying a lot of money.

It is what it is.....say anything against the sacred cows of junior tennis world safe thinking and you will get slammed.

Except I don't think anyone has argued that Abby is the best 12 year old in the world or the best 12 year old in the country.

It's just that no one here believes that an 8 year old is going to be able to beat her.

And most people don't seem to think Abby is as terrible a player as you seem to claim.

[TCF]

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[ga tennis]

I haven't seen Abby play live before but i have seen her results.I know she beat a little girl i know that can straight up ball.The girl im talking about would not lose a game to any kid younger than 10.