Newbie question: why so much slice at lower levels?

[scottf2]

Hi all - I'm very new to the game - just picked up a racquet three weeks ago (at age 41), but have quickly become addicted!

Yesterday I had a chance to watch some matches during a mixed doubles tournament at my club - these were mostly 7.0 and 8.0 matches. I noticed that just about everyone in the 7.0 games were hitting slices with their forehands and backhands, and the vast majority of the 8.0 players were the same. I've been taking lessons and my instructor has been teaching me to put top-spin on the ball - we haven't even covered slice technique yet (admittedly it's only been three lessons so far...)

So I'm sure this is a very basic question - but I'm wondering why all of these players slice the ball and I almost never saw a top-spin shot, whereas it seems as though when I watch the more advanced players, there's a lot more top spin. What is the advantage of slicing the ball in these kinds of 7.0-8.0 doubles matches?

Scott

[Cindysphinx]

I'm surprised to hear that mixed dubs players at 7.0 are slicing. Most 3.5 women I know hit their FHs flat. They almost all hit a 2HBH, and that is usually not a slice.

There are players who slice a lot, both because it can trip people up and because it is the only shot they own.

As for me, I am a 4.0 and I hardly ever slice and hit most everything with topspin. The pros I have used have discouraged me from learning slice until I have mastered topspin, especially on the BH.

The thinking is that if you are a 2HBH player and you start to hit a lot of 1HBH slice, you will get lazy and rely on the 1HBH slice too much. I know many people at TT disagree with that idea, but my experience is that the players I know who learn to slice before they master 2HBH topspin use the slice as a crutch as a substitute for proper preparation/footwork.

YMMV, of course.

[scottf2]

Thanks Cindysphinx - I will admit I could certainly be overestimating the amount of slice that I saw, since I only recently learned the difference! But I did watch two side by side matches, one was a 7.0 and one was an 8.0 - the 8.0 players looked very solid and in control and had few unforced errors (this was one of the later rounds in a championship tournament so I assume they were at the top of the 8.0 ladder) - but I still noticed quite a bit of sliced backhands and forehands. In the 7.0 match, I don't think I saw a single BH hit with top spin...

So what I'm wondering is why someone would choose to slice the ball instead of hit it with top spin? Is it an easier or safer shot? From what I could see in the matches I watched, the shots hit with slice were much easier to return than the ones hit with top spin, but I'm assuming there's some subtlety that I'm missing...

Thanks,
Scott

[WildVolley]

My thoughts on this might not be correct, but here they are.
1) You can hit a slice shot with less racket head speed (in fact this helps, because otherwise you can risk hitting long).
2) You can hit slice with less shoulder turn.
3) Slice shots usually go slower so allow you more time to recover.

In general, I believe that hitting topspin requires more athleticism than hitting slice. Also, the slice form is usually more compact and uses the arm more than the rest of the body. This is why old guys tend to hack away with slice. Some of these guys are pretty crafty, but if they're not careful a guy who is good at net can really punish them.

[LeeD]

Stop playing tennis with old farts who have injured shoulders and declining eyesight right now. Look for players your age and younger.

[UCSF2012]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Stop playing tennis with old farts who have injured shoulders and declining eyesight right now. Look for players your age and younger.

If everyone did that, who'd you ever play with?

[davo81]

Doubles players are usually older. They play with slice not because they are worse but simply because that's how tennis used to be played, and because it is less exhausting than playing with topspin.

[LeeD]

Easier to swing from high to low, using gravity to help.
Get better, and old farts don't want to play you, after you crush them bagels. Most guys who slice all their forehands are lower than 3.5's.
Go to the tournament at RanchoCordova this weekend, and see better players seldom slice, even on their backhands.

[MonkeyRacquet]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

The thinking is that if you are a 2HBH player and you start to hit a lot of 1HBH slice, you will get lazy and rely on the 1HBH slice too much.

Guilty. I used to use a 2HBH but then i figured out the 1HBH slice. As of now, I'm a high school player, I still find it incredibly difficult to use 2HBH in a match. I rely way too much on BH slice. I can't attack with my BH, and the only reason I don't lose every match is because I volley well enough to survive.

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRacquet

Guilty. I used to use a 2HBH but then i figured out the 1HBH slice. As of now, I'm a high school player, I still find it incredibly difficult to use 2HBH in a match. I rely way too much on BH slice. I can't attack with my BH, and the only reason I don't lose every match is because I volley well enough to survive.

well, you could always work on your BH slice so you CAN attack on it, lol

OP, it is just because a slice is easier to hit poorly, if that makes sense.

What I mean is, if you content to be a bit of a hacker (nothing wrong with that), it is easier to slice everything as it requires less of, well, everything. (RHS, athleticism, technique, etc etc)

[Cindysphinx]

In reaction to OP's observations about top 8.0 mixed . . .

The serves of the 4.0/4.5 are coming really fast. It is safer to slice the return, especially as the female partner at net may not be poaching. The slice return will also stay low in case the server is coming in.

Anyway, another reason you may be seeing slice is that it forces players to move forward (making it difficult to lob), and keeps the ball lower (making it difficult to lob). There are some players (including me) who will lob you half to death and the last thing you want to do is keep feeding them high, loopy deep balls that are perfect for lobbing.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRacquet

Guilty. I used to use a 2HBH but then i figured out the 1HBH slice. As of now, I'm a high school player, I still find it incredibly difficult to use 2HBH in a match. I rely way too much on BH slice. I can't attack with my BH, and the only reason I don't lose every match is because I volley well enough to survive.

Yep, slicing because it is easier is a trap.

I have a friend who fell into this trap. If a ball is at all challenging or is shortish, she takes one hand off the racket and hits a 1HBH slice. The trouble is when she is deeper in the court. If she slices from a deep position, the net player will eat it up. Also problematic is she cannot hit a topspin lob on her BH side because it is too hard to do with one hand.

I can slice (not very well!) off of FH and BH. I try to only do it in response to a slice (can't get under it with SW grip) or when in deep trouble (shouldn't happen often in doubles).

Don't want to fall into any traps!

[tyu1314]

Are those slice low over the net and bounce really low and through the court, or its the kind that pop up and clear the net by 10ft and bounce and stay at the waist height?

[5263]

Originally Posted by scottf2

So I'm sure this is a very basic question - but I'm wondering why all of these players slice the ball and I almost never saw a top-spin shot, whereas it seems as though when I watch the more advanced players, there's a lot more top spin. What is the advantage of slicing the ball in these kinds of 7.0-8.0 doubles matches?

Scott

It's just easier in the beginning.
Good slices with good technique are even easier, but not so many learn to do
slice well, especially since they think they already have it going.

[scottf2]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Along with what I learned from you all, I also found this description of slice technique which helped clear things up.

As for me, I'm content to practice my completely worthless non-slice 2HBH until it becomes slightly less worthless! At some point I suppose I'll learn to slice the ball as well, since I would imagine it's better to have multiple tools at one's disposal...

Thanks again for the helpful replies.

Scott

[samarai]

playing doubles, a good backhand slice is crucial. Keeps the ball low and easier to return a strong serve.

[sureshs]

Slicing is a bad habit. It is easy to do and prevents development of top spin when done excessively.

Having said that, at the club level, slicing is often more effective than top spin. It is versatile, applying to low balls, high balls, baseline play, net play, and drop shots. That is why many crafty old guys with no topspin do rather well in the clubs.

[5263]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Slicing is a bad habit. It is easy to do and prevents development of top spin when done excessively.

Another crazy idea from the living & posting "tennis myth".

Slicing is NOT a bad habit, but is an important, "must have" tennis skill.
While it is easy to do, it's often done poorly and needs work like other tennis skills.
It does NOT prevent developing awesome top spin strokes and it's actually good
to work on them both, contrasting the techniques of each.

You might think throwing in the term excessively makes the sentence sort of true,
but even that does not fix it, because you can do something excessively and
still excel in other areas. I'm not advocating doing anything excessively, but
there is not necessarily a direct effect to other areas.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by 5263

Slicing is NOT a bad habit, but is an important, "must have" tennis skill.

Reading comprehension is a must-have skill that you lack.

"It is versatile, applying to low balls, high balls, baseline play, net play, and drop shots."

You read the above and concluded that I was saying it is not a must-have tennis skill? LOL you are just blinded by your ignorance and hate that I prove you wrong on every single thread where you just go out and insult people.

When I said it was a bad habit, even a fool would have understood that I was referring to the club players who do it exclusively and avoid learning top spin. Such an elementary reading skill seems to be beyond you.

[Sky_Boy]

if your not in proper postion u can still hit a BH slice which means it's easier to hit a slice as compared to a top spin OHBH on most shots or infact all shots... if u r late on wide shots, it's much easier to slice it back.. eg when players r pull off court on the FH side they usually slice it back.. u can see this on many pro matches.. if hit deep enough usually it neutralise the rally..

Slice doesn't take up energy and it's effective up to a certain level.. However once u pass 4.5 most players usually punish slice that floats too high or not hit deep enough..