Is This How Higher-Level Folks Play The Net?

[Cindysphinx]

This is my first year at 4.0, and I am noticing something about how ladies play the net.

I had a very tough match last night. The other three ladies on the court were stronger than me, and they play 8.0 mixed, 9.0 mixed, 8.5 ladies combo. They win a lot, so they know what they are doing.

The server's partner often lined up well off the net. Like, just in front of the service line. There were no attempts to poach service returns, even though everyone had good volleys. The net player just stood there and waited for a ball to come her way, and when one did she would crush it or do something smart with it.

I don't get it. Why aren't these capable volleyers faking/poaching?

The reason I ask is that, well . . . I don't much like it when my partner is a spectator at the net. I want her to be an unpredictable nuisance up there. I want her to help me hold. I don't want to be responsible for every ball except those I can get the opponents to pop up to her waiting racket.

Is this typical? I feel like I am searching for partners who will be active at net, who will poach, but the higher I go the less I am seeing this. I have had two strong 4.0s tell me that poaching is not their game.

I am starting to wonder if the game is played differently at the higher levels. Players are much more likely to S&V or follow their returns to net. The movement for that is forward. What I am not seeing is movement sideways in the form of poaching.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

This is my first year at 4.0, and I am noticing something about how ladies play the net.

I had a very tough match last night. The other three ladies on the court were stronger than me, and they play 8.0 mixed, 9.0 mixed, 8.5 ladies combo. They win a lot, so they know what they are doing.

The server's partner often lined up well off the net. Like, just in front of the service line. There were no attempts to poach service returns, even though everyone had good volleys. The net player just stood there and waited for a ball to come her way, and when one did she would crush it or do something smart with it.

I don't get it. Why aren't these capable volleyers faking/poaching?

The reason I ask is that, well . . . I don't much like it when my partner is a spectator at the net. I want her to be an unpredictable nuisance up there. I want her to help me hold. I don't want to be responsible for every ball except those I can get the opponents to pop up to her waiting racket.

Is this typical? I feel like I am searching for partners who will be active at net, who will poach, but the higher I go the less I am seeing this. I have had two strong 4.0s tell me that poaching is not their game.

I am starting to wonder if the game is played differently at the higher levels. Players are much more likely to S&V or follow their returns to net. The movement for that is forward. What I am not seeing is movement sideways in the form of poaching.

Your serve sucks so they don't want to get in the way of the return or get passed dtl. Serve better and you will see poaching.

[samarai]

I agree, net play will sometimes be dictated by the serves you throw out there. Even in the men's game, I'm not gonna stand close to the net and get pummeled if you cant get a decent serve in with pace and spin.

[spaceman_spiff]

What I see on the men's side is that poaching is not a planned thing most of the time. But that said, there's a lot of active movement anticipating the weak ball and moving in to kill it off.

For example, with some partners, when I'm serving well, I often don't hit a second ball. But at the same time, my partner and I aren't planning poaches. It's just that, based on my serve placement, they can anticipate when and where a weak or predictable return will go, so they're usually in position.

If my serves aren't causing weak returns, then I'll have to hit more approach volleys myself. But, my partners are still cheating towards the middle most of the time just in case.

It's always a shock whenever I play with a singles player who doesn't move.

[floridatennisdude]

When my partner is serving, I'll stand 2 steps in front of our service line. As I see the returner start to prepare for their swing, I take one big step forward and split step...so now I am a little more than half way between service line and net and ready to move into any volley I can play.

I have no clue why your partners were so far back. Seems that they are just used to playing the first few shots cross court and are a little over patient. That's not a style I would want either. Especially if I were the weaker of the 4 on court. We're they mostly singles players?

I also don't know of any advice out there that doesn't encourage aggressive attempts to get volleys on your side. No point in waiting for the action to come your way. You have to force the opponent into making mistakes that you can pounce on. Especially at higher levels.

[tennis tom]

Well, well, well, better players play differently then lesser players--what a shocker! It's called percentage tennis. You may want to look back at my early posts to you Cindy, when I gave you the answers to your questions. Back then you derided them or totally ignored what I was telling you. Do a search, I'm not a public utility. I do appreciate that now, that you have become a 4.0, you've made a transformation in your vision/VISION of what the game can be.

G'luck

[Mike Y]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

This is my first year at 4.0, and I am noticing something about how ladies play the net.

I had a very tough match last night. The other three ladies on the court were stronger than me, and they play 8.0 mixed, 9.0 mixed, 8.5 ladies combo. They win a lot, so they know what they are doing.

The server's partner often lined up well off the net. Like, just in front of the service line. There were no attempts to poach service returns, even though everyone had good volleys. The net player just stood there and waited for a ball to come her way, and when one did she would crush it or do something smart with it.

I don't get it. Why aren't these capable volleyers faking/poaching?

The reason I ask is that, well . . . I don't much like it when my partner is a spectator at the net. I want her to be an unpredictable nuisance up there. I want her to help me hold. I don't want to be responsible for every ball except those I can get the opponents to pop up to her waiting racket.

Is this typical? I feel like I am searching for partners who will be active at net, who will poach, but the higher I go the less I am seeing this. I have had two strong 4.0s tell me that poaching is not their game.

I am starting to wonder if the game is played differently at the higher levels. Players are much more likely to S&V or follow their returns to net. The movement for that is forward. What I am not seeing is movement sideways in the form of poaching.

That seems unusual. Most higher level teams have very aggressive poachers at the net. I'm very aggressive at the net when my partner is serving. However, that may not be this particular team's game. Maybe the person at the net didn't trust her volleys. Maybe they were both primarily singles players and felt uncomfortable poaching. Was it only one of the partners doing this? Maybe that was the weaker partner who didn't want to get in the way of the stronger partner.

Were the serves wide? On wide serves, I tend to be far less aggressive, I have to cover the alley shot. That's why I instruct my partners to serve down the middle most of the time, that way I can play way toward the middle of the court.

But though this team was comfortable doing this, and winning, it is not optimal strategy. I would hit it at the net person's feet often if they were standing that far back.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Mike Y

That seems unusual. Most higher level teams have very aggressive poachers at the net. I'm very aggressive at the net when my partner is serving.

Are you a fifty year old housewife club player?

[Mike Y]

One other thing I should have added. For the higher levels, service returners absolutely can hit a down the line return, where the lower level probably cannot consistently. You can't just give the alley away at the higher levels. In fact, the down the line service return is one of my favorite shots.

[Tennis Truth]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Well, well, well, better players play differently then lesser players--what a shocker! It's called percentage tennis. You may want to look back at my early posts to you Cindy, when I gave you the answers to your questions. Back then you derided them or totally ignored what I was telling you. Do a search, I'm not a public utility. I do appreciate that now, that you have become a 4.0, you've made a transformation in your vision/VISION of what the game can be.

G'luck

Wow, great response. Can't see any possible reason why anyone would ever ignore your advice. It is not like you are unnecessarily rude, unpleasant, or egotistical in your responses.

[goran_ace]

Quickness/mobility may be an issue too. When I poach (or fake poach), I'm either trying to get the returner to change his shot or hit into coverage. A well executed poach takes timing, can't go too early, can't be too late. As players get older they can still retain great strokes/ball skills but maybe not the mobility to get all the way across on the poach. At 4.0/4.5 you'll see good enough returns where they can exploit that. So if you don't move very quickly it's often better to stay home and look to jump on a the return down the middle than to fully commit to a poach and not be able to cover a wider return.

[spot]

I think that people are missing the difference between mens and women's tennis. I mean look at womens doubles on the WTA Tour- teams can be very successful just by grinding it out from the baseline.

I do think that there is a dividing line by age in the womens game at the 4.0 level. I think there are a lot of older players who have developed great hands to get there. There are younger women who have mostly developed great ground strokes to get there. And the 4.0 level is the meeting point. So you will see lots of younger girls who want to bash from teh baseline and who will even get irritated if their net player takes a ball that is "theirs". Then you have a different group of players who may not ever hit through a ball because they are just trying to get the point alive until they can get to the net.

There are some "hands" players that have just lost that step and someone with big ground strokes with just torch them. There are some ground strokers who don't have the versitility and will be eaten alive by good hands players who can set up a wall.

Personally I am a fan of putting similar styles together as a captain. I think that hands players should play with other hadns players. Put baseliners together who can protect each other when they are at the net. When you put a hands player with a baseliner I think it often just leads to frustration on both.

Not all players fall into either category- Cindy sounds like someone who enjoys the net but also can hit a nice deep topspin shot.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Tennis Truth

Wow, great response. Can't see any possible reason why anyone would ever ignore your advice. It is not like you are unnecessarily rude, unpleasant, or egotistical in your responses.

Hey, I'm with you, Mr. Sphinx, I don't get it either! You get what you pay for in this life--steal the fire. You must be telling the "truth" since you ARE "tennis truth". Actually, if you got to know me t.truth--you would dislike me EVEN more!

Please put me on your ignore list, I would hate to think you ever got a point from anything you may have learned from me.

Cheers and hit a lot of holes in one today.

[rufus_smith]

2nd post nailed it. In women's games, generally the typical serve return is twice as good as the typical serve. The server's partner is often better off taking a defensive position.

[Cindysphinx]

Just to be clear . . . it wasn't my partner being afraid of my "weak" serves. The opponents were playing the net from close to the service line and not moving much. Like, one of the opponents had a huge serve which I would think would create lots of poaching opportunities. Yet her partner played the whole match shaded toward the alley.

Spot, when I captain, I look for pairing where I have two "forward movers" or two "lateral movers."

An example: I play with a lady who is a "forward mover." She comes to the net on every serve and every return. She doesn't want me to take any ball I can reach. Instead, she wants me to . . . well, stay out of her way. I shouldn't poach with my BH. I should remember she is coming to net and so should let middle balls through. That sort of thing.

Then when I am serving, she is just kind of hanging around. She doesn't try to make anything happen at the net. So I am on my own; if I don't win the points on my serve, we're losing that game.

Yet if I pair her with another "forward mover," they will win. I, on the other hand, do better with a "lateral mover," someone who is very active at net.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Just to be clear . . . it wasn't my partner being afraid of my "weak" serves. The opponents were playing the net from close to the service line and not moving much. Like, one of the opponents had a huge serve which I would think would create lots of poaching opportunities. Yet her partner played the whole match shaded toward the alley.

Spot, when I captain, I look for pairing where I have two "forward movers" or two "lateral movers."

An example: I play with a lady who is a "forward mover." She comes to the net on every serve and every return. She doesn't want me to take any ball I can reach. Instead, she wants me to . . . well, stay out of her way. I shouldn't poach with my BH. I should remember she is coming to net and so should let middle balls through. That sort of thing.

Then when I am serving, she is just kind of hanging around. She doesn't try to make anything happen at the net. So I am on my own; if I don't win the points on my serve, we're losing that game.

Yet if I pair her with another "forward mover," they will win. I, on the other hand, do better with a "lateral mover," someone who is very active at net.

I believe you over think all this.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by arche3

I believe you over think all this.

Good captains think their line-ups through carefully and notice things.

[spot]

Originally Posted by arche3

I believe you over think all this.

If you don't think about what styles work best playing together than either you were a lousy captain or you haven't ever been a captain.

And Particularly in women's doubles these sorts of things are tremendously important.

[Nellie]

Were they much better than your team - if I am playing inferior competition, I don't poach much because I am playing not to lose.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by spot

If you don't think about what styles work best playing together than either you were a lousy captain or you haven't ever been a captain.

And Particularly in women's doubles these sorts of things are tremendously important.

I guess since I'm not a female and I'm not a 4.0 I don't know how important it is. It just seems too overly complicated. When I play doubles I just adapt to what my partner does.