Service motion and setup

[dlam]

How do you mask your serve so you opponent can't read it?

[LeeD]

First of all, it doesn't matter up to about 5.0 levels, unless you actually tell your opponent where you're serving.
But, same footstance, same shoulder turn, same toss location, VARY the followthru...left, right, and center.

[asusundevils1971]

Originally Posted by dlam

How do you mask your serve so you opponent can't read it?

I just ask them where they want the serve. Then serve it there and see if they can return it. You would be surprised by the looks you will receive.

[SystemicAnomaly]

Originally Posted by dlam

How do you mask your serve so you opponent can't read it?

Are you concerned about masking the type of serve, the placement of the serve, or both. It is no big secret that most players will usually hit the first serve flatter than the 2nd. So if you 1st serve toss is somewhat different than your 2nd serve toss, no big deal. However, you should not have different tosses for different target areas.

Your service ritual, windup, trophy position and racket head drop should all be similar. However, the swingpath of the upward swing will often need to different for different types of serves, especially of the toss placement is varied. The orientation of the racket face will affect the placement of the ball in the service box.

[dlam]

I finding where I stand on the baseline seem to be as important as trying to have exact same mannerism pretoss
I like the stance to be very close to the middle between hash marks and sideline
It works well for me

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I flick my wrist until my watch blinds my opponent, then I serve.

[NLBwell]

I've never much worried about it. My toss is so random that I often don't know exactly what serve I'm going to hit.

However, as a way to get a quick point if I think the opponent is catching on to my serve, I can hit a hard flat serve off my kick serve toss and can hit a kick serve off of my flat serve toss.

[mmk]

Originally Posted by NLBwell

I've never much worried about it. My toss is so random that I often don't know exactly what serve I'm going to hit.

However, as a way to get a quick point if I think the opponent is catching on to my serve, I can hit a hard flat serve off my kick serve toss and can hit a kick serve off of my flat serve toss.

I should have posted sooner, that is exactly what I was going to say. I've got a severe mental issue on my toss.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by dlam

I finding where I stand on the baseline seem to be as important as trying to have exact same mannerism pretoss
I like the stance to be very close to the middle between hash marks and sideline
It works well for me

If you're standing there when serving for singles, you are serving from the doubles location and that would be highly unconventional. You're giving away a lot of open court for your opponent to hit into. That has no future against real players.

[NLBwell]

In the Agassi/Skoff Davis Cup match, both players, especially Skoff often stood very far out wide to serve.
In a particular situation (Skoff had a huge forehand) you are pulling the opponent off court and forcing him to hit toward your strength from his weakness. You are certainly leaving a lot of court open, which is why you usually see this tactic on slow clay courts.

[dlam]

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly

Are you concerned about masking the type of serve, the placement of the serve, or both. It is no big secret that most players will usually hit the first serve flatter than the 2nd. So if you 1st serve toss is somewhat different than your 2nd serve toss, no big deal. However, you should not have different tosses for different target areas.

Your service ritual, windup, trophy position and racket head drop should all be similar. However, the swingpath of the upward swing will often need to different for different types of serves, especially of the toss placement is varied. The orientation of the racket face will affect the placement of the ball in the service box.

I don't try to hide the fact I slice of the deuce side and kick off the ad side
It's the placement I try to hide
It's a bit tough to disguise but I'm watching the top players and their bouncing retiual and where they stand on the baseline looks exactly the same for both a wide and down the line serve

[LeeD]

You forget, top male serves VARY their type of serve depending on where they are serving.
For instance, when Fed wants to go wide duece court, he top/slices. When he wants to go wide up the middle, he twists. His flat only goes up the middle or at the opponent.
On ad court, when he goes up the middle, he top/slices. When he goes out wide, he usually twists, but can hit a slower flat serve out wide. He seldom hits a flat serve ad court up the middle, because his top/slice goes around 110 and can ace anyone if it's placed close to the center line.
They do NOT hit the same serve all three quadrants.

[ARON]

I don't try to mask my serves. I'm more concerned with hitting them correctly. Watching my own serve on video, it's very easy to tell what is coming.

My kick has this back ball toss and exaggerated shoulder turn. The slice toss is wayyy out to the right.

Bigger problems to worry about than disguising my serve though

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by LeeD

You forget, top male serves VARY their type of serve depending on where they are serving.
For instance, when Fed wants to go wide duece court, he top/slices. When he wants to go wide up the middle, he twists. His flat only goes up the middle or at the opponent.
On ad court, when he goes up the middle, he top/slices. When he goes out wide, he usually twists, but can hit a slower flat serve out wide. He seldom hits a flat serve ad court up the middle, because his top/slice goes around 110 and can ace anyone if it's placed close to the center line.
They do NOT hit the same serve all three quadrants.

To build on this, any good server should be similar to a baseball pitcher. No reason you shouldn't have the equivalent of a fastball, curveball, slider, and changeup. If you can also add occasionally dropping down to throw sidearm (changing look), a screwball (twist serve), or other variations, that will make you even stronger. You should be able to hit your spots with all of your serves.

[LeeD]

"hit your spots"... to expound.
You DON'T need to hit all 3 quadrants with all your different serves! Since a flat doesn't really work well out wide, over the higher part of the net, you can limit your flats to "at the body" and to lower part of the net.
Same with slice.
Same with twists.

[SpitFire]

Yell across the net, "I'm going down the middle, just so you know."
*hit the T*
Say the same thing next game, go wide...

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

If you're standing there when serving for singles, you are serving from the doubles location and that would be highly unconventional. You're giving away a lot of open court for your opponent to hit into. That has no future against real players.

Trying to teach someone to serve from a message board is going to be near impossible but what the heck, yes the good players stand in the same spot and use the same motion for all their serves--they change the direction and spin of the ball through pronation of their arms, wrists, where they toss the ball and follow through--way too much to learn here from a post or a thread. Get yourself a great coach, tell him you want to learn how to serve and pay him about $5,000 to teach you for that one stroke. Shouldn't take you more then six months to six years, or forever to develop a world class serve depending on how much time you have and your innate physical abilities.

Originally Posted by NLBwell

In the Agassi/Skoff Davis Cup match, both players, especially Skoff often stood very far out wide to serve.
In a particular situation (Skoff had a huge forehand) you are pulling the opponent off court and forcing him to hit toward your strength from his weakness. You are certainly leaving a lot of court open, which is why you usually see this tactic on slow clay courts.

Agassi was never known for his serve although he did improve it towards the end. Skoff I've never heard of but I don't claim to be a Bud Collins. When you see guys at the rec level, wandering around the baseline from the hash to the outside corner of the alley, to aim their serve, you know they're in trouble.

For singles stand heal to heal, near the hash on the deuce side and heal to arch, 1 1/2 rackets distance from the hash on the ad side. Toss the ball in line with the right net post, (the one o'clock position), for a first serve. and above your head, (the twelve o'clock position), for a topspin second serve--now go hit a million practice serves, and by the way, it's a continental grip for both the serve and volley.

Originally Posted by dlam

It's the placement I try to hide
It's a bit tough to disguise but I'm watching the top players and their bouncing retiual and where they stand on the baseline looks exactly the same for both a wide and down the line serve

It is the same and start by not moving your feet for a consistent ball toss.

[LeeD]

There is nothing tactically wrong with standing well off your center hash when you are serving.
First of all, you KNOW where you are standing.
It forces an open court, which you know is your favored direction for running towards, and it's probably your stronger shot.
If forces your opponent to hit where YOU want him to hit.
And when he successfully hits to your covered side, you have it covered with ONE step.
We need to open our eyes when it comes to tennis. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by LeeD

There is nothing tactically wrong with standing well off your center hash when you are serving.


We need to open our eyes when it comes to tennis. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Yes, you can stand anywhere you want between the hash and the loo as long as it's within the fences. You can serve on your knees or doing a head-stand (and don't forget to step into it!), but, the OP has stated in prior posts, that he is relatively new to the game and should concentrate on learning some fundamentals, like not moving his feet while serving, before he starts moving on to the advanced stuff pros might do once in a blue moon when nothing else is working.

[johndagolfer]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Yes, you can stand anywhere you want between the hash and the loo as long as it's within the fences. You can serve on your knees or doing a head-stand (and don't forget to step into it!), but, the OP has stated in prior posts, that he is relatively new to the game and should concentrate on learning some fundamentals, like not moving his feet while serving, before he starts moving on to the advanced stuff pros might do once in a blue moon when nothing else is working.

I believe you are mistaken TT. You cannot stand outside of the outer lines(depending on whether you're playing single or doubles.