Pushing serves.legit strategy? - Page 3

LuckyR · 10-31-2012, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

And that's exactly why you are a 4.5, and will remain so, until the day you start your decline.

No, the reason my game will not improve (which is a central issue on this topic) is that due to work and family pressure, I don't have the time to practice enough to increase my game. Matchplay is for winning, not working on your strokes. The practice court is for grooving your shots.

But ultimately you are correct, my career will not be in tennis.

mmk · 10-31-2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treblings

sometimes players go for too much on a slow serve. players with extreme grips can´t get under the ball if it´s not only slow but also short
lots of times it´s the variation though

It is amazing how many guys hit the back wall when returning a slow serve. I guess they get over-anxious.

robbo1970 · 10-31-2012, 09:32 AM

I dont think it ever hurts to mix it up a bit. Playing someone with a predictable serve is actually a bad strategy on their part as you are likely to know where the ball will go and how it will bounce.

I have played many hard hitters and they often thrive off a hard hit serve by taking its force and thumping it back.

I would try and add a bit of spin to it though, just to take it away a bit, if you know what I mean. But you dont need to add more power. Its like golf really, if you let your swing do the work and by slowing it down you have more accuracy to hit the corners or lines then go for it.

I think against any opponent you need to be adaptable and able to mix things up if you need to and exploit their weeknesses.

mikeler · 10-31-2012, 09:37 AM

Most players like a little pace to work with. Throwing in a slow spinny serve can trip up quite a few of my opponents. Others can slap it away for a winner. Depends on the day and/or opponent for me.

blakesq · 10-31-2012, 09:41 AM

Its great you take tennis so seriously. But, I don't think you are being completely realistic. John McEnroe is in his 50's. Do you think he is still trying to "improve"? Do you think the current John McEnroe could beat the McEnroe of 1983?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

Are we saying a 40 year old cannot hit shots like the pros? It sure isn't physical, so is it between the ears?
Yeah, you gotta get in some kind of shape. Yeah, you gotta try. What's stopping you?
I"m not saying to PLAY like DJ. I'm saying to hit shots like DJ. For sure, we can't hit every shot like them, but one in 3, for sure. Every other, possibly.

tennis_ocd · 10-31-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakesq

John McEnroe is in his 50's. Do you think he is still trying to "improve"?

I'd guess that he is quite focused on being a better player than he was the day before.... But I'll confess that "improvement" is such an overwhelming strong personal motivator that I have trouble grasping the mindset of perhaps a majority of guys that simply enjoy playing were they currently are. I'm amazed that the VAST majority of guys I meet have simply no interest whatsoever in taking a lesson.

tennis tom · 10-31-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakesq

Its great you take tennis so seriously. But, I don't think you are being completely realistic. John McEnroe is in his 50's. Do you think he is still trying to "improve"? Do you think the current John McEnroe could beat the McEnroe of 1983?

John Mac's current head in his '83 body would definitely win today. He is fit, carrying no fat. He's been playing on the Outback Senior's tour since it started. Beat guys much younger like Philipousis. Played open doubles after retiring from singles. When he's in SoCal practices with the top college players. Much of his game is finesse, great hands, not requiring big power. He's still very competitive but much of the blustering today is for show because that's what the fans pay to see.

tennis tom · 10-31-2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_ocd

I'm amazed that the VAST majority of guys I meet have simply no interest whatsoever in taking a lesson.

For the majority it's about hanging out with the chums, getting away from the little woman, having some beers, liar's dice--four old farts trying to one up each other and cutting a deal once in a while.

blakesq · 10-31-2012, 11:15 AM

so the answer is no, Mcenroe of today couldn't beat Mcenroe of the 1980s. and obviously, Mcenroe is not continually improving, in fact he is getting worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis tom

John Mac's current head in his '83 body would definitely win today. He is fit, carrying no fat. He's been playing on the Outback Senior's tour since it started. Beat guys much younger like Philipousis. Played open doubles after retiring from singles. When he's in SoCal practices with the top college players. Much of his game is finesse, great hands, not requiring big power. He's still very competitive but much of the blustering today is for show because that's what the fans pay to see.

Backhanded Compliment · 10-31-2012, 11:32 AM

It is a legit strategy to change things up... esp. if you are a 4.0+ playing against those below your level. Against equal or better playesr I throw in 65% power with lots of spin just for the way it makes them rethink their return position... then I hit a 130mph 1st serve the next point. It works great.

Honestly, sometimes when I play a pick up doubles game I have trouble returning powderpuff serves at first (usually hitting the net) but I keep at it and by the second service game Im hitting return winners left and right (typical when a 4.5 or so hits with a 3.5). It forces me to stay sharp and forces them to develop a better second serve.

treblings · 10-31-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmk

It is amazing how many guys hit the back wall when returning a slow serve. I guess they get over-anxious.

i guess that´s true
also, some people seem to train only at high-speed. like they give out medals for hitting hard

LeeD · 10-31-2012, 01:27 PM

For sure, there are no medals given to hitting soft.

treblings · 10-31-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

For sure, there are no medals given to hitting soft.

you´re actually confirming my point

sundaypunch · 10-31-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakesq

so the answer is no, Mcenroe of today couldn't beat Mcenroe of the 1980s. and obviously, Mcenroe is not continually improving, in fact he is getting worse.

Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

NTRPolice · 10-31-2012, 05:07 PM

I know a guy who hits these weird "roller" serves. The serve goes about 50-60 mph, but he imparts topspin on the ball plus a high trajectory so it gets a really good bounce. That serve is really good for what it is considering most people put way too much side spin on their ball causing it to situp after the bounce.

That type of serve wont be consistently exploited much until high levels of 3.5 play.

mmk · 11-01-2012, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

For sure, there are no medals given to hitting soft.

Right, drop shots never win points

Big_Dangerous · 11-01-2012, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

Are we saying a 40 year old cannot hit shots like the pros? It sure isn't physical, so is it between the ears?
Yeah, you gotta get in some kind of shape. Yeah, you gotta try. What's stopping you?
I"m not saying to PLAY like DJ. I'm saying to hit shots like DJ. For sure, we can't hit every shot like them, but one in 3, for sure. Every other, possibly.

I think you are very delusional.

Ronaldo · 11-01-2012, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice

I know a guy who hits these weird "roller" serves. The serve goes about 50-60 mph, but he imparts topspin on the ball plus a high trajectory so it gets a really good bounce. That serve is really good for what it is considering most people put way too much side spin on their ball causing it to situp after the bounce.

That type of serve wont be consistently exploited much until high levels of 3.5 play.

Saw how effective that serve is when a guy had to serve underhanded and used a looper hit with a western grip.

Big_Dangerous · 11-01-2012, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD

For sure, there are no medals given to hitting soft.

Marco Scutaro of the San Francisco Giants won NLCS MVP, and not a single one of his 14 hits in that series were home runs....

anubis · 11-01-2012, 05:25 AM

Back to the original topic, not sure if OP is talking about patty-caking serves in or just utilizing a true "second serve" that is slower and has a lot of spin.

Sometimes when I'm tired, or the pressure of the match gets to me, I'll stop my first serves all together and just serve second serves, but I feel guilty about it and always prefer not to do this.

But I will never just "dink" it over or remove almost all pace altogether. I even try to put some zip on my second serve. I don't feel good winning matches when I tried to be as "gentle" as possible.

i would rather lose a match by starting off @ 100% and finishing at 80%, than winning a match by finishing @ 30% by moon balling it, dinking serves in and drop-shotting everything.

10-31-2012, 09:32 AM	#43
robbo1970 Professional Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: UK Posts: 977	I dont think it ever hurts to mix it up a bit. Playing someone with a predictable serve is actually a bad strategy on their part as you are likely to know where the ball will go and how it will bounce. I have played many hard hitters and they often thrive off a hard hit serve by taking its force and thumping it back. I would try and add a bit of spin to it though, just to take it away a bit, if you know what I mean. But you dont need to add more power. Its like golf really, if you let your swing do the work and by slowing it down you have more accuracy to hit the corners or lines then go for it. I think against any opponent you need to be adaptable and able to mix things up if you need to and exploit their weeknesses. __________________ X2 Dunlop Biomimetic 300 / X2 Prince Exo3 93

10-31-2012, 11:32 AM	#50
Backhanded Compliment Semi-Pro Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 769	It is a legit strategy to change things up... esp. if you are a 4.0+ playing against those below your level. Against equal or better playesr I throw in 65% power with lots of spin just for the way it makes them rethink their return position... then I hit a 130mph 1st serve the next point. It works great. Honestly, sometimes when I play a pick up doubles game I have trouble returning powderpuff serves at first (usually hitting the net) but I keep at it and by the second service game Im hitting return winners left and right (typical when a 4.5 or so hits with a 3.5). It forces me to stay sharp and forces them to develop a better second serve. __________________ Extreme Eastern BH, 1x Head IGPMP 12.8 oz, 8.3pts HL with toughgut16l mains and WCSS x's. 1 YTPMP, 1 YTPP, 1 Max 200g, 1 Becker London Tour

10-31-2012, 05:07 PM	#55
NTRPolice Rookie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 386	I know a guy who hits these weird "roller" serves. The serve goes about 50-60 mph, but he imparts topspin on the ball plus a high trajectory so it gets a really good bounce. That serve is really good for what it is considering most people put way too much side spin on their ball causing it to situp after the bounce. That type of serve wont be consistently exploited much until high levels of 3.5 play. __________________ "In the 1980's two men dominated--sometimes each other, most of the time everyone else."

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