For the few that will care - Mazda planning new RX-7 for 2017

[DRII]

Mazda without Ford may be a problem in the future.

But, I like Mazda - my favorite Japanese brand besides Nissan...

[DRII]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

The RX-8 did plenty for me aesthetics-wise.

1st gen Mazda 3 changed the game of the compact car. It did away with boring, uninteresting designs that was associated with "economy/compact" cars. On top of that, it offered features (for its time) that rivaled premium cars, such as:
- Sat-Nav
- Automatic climate control
- HID
- Standard disc brakes on all 4 wheels
- (for the non-drivers) Manual mode in the automatic
- Heated seats and leather
- Ridiculous cargo space for its size

Bottom line, if it weren't for the 1st gen Mazda 3, there won't be any any of the premium features found in current Hyundai Elantra/Accent, Ford Fiesta/Focus, and any other car companies that want to differentiate themselves from the image of boring economy car. I really want to see how long will Toyota and Honda hold out and sell just based on their reputation, because the Corolla and Civic are getting lapped by others' offerings.

The Mazda 3 was built on a Ford platform. I agree it was a great subcompact, but it only changed the game for car reviewers and magazines. It's never reached a sales volume to truly change the game.

I agree that Honda and Toyota have definitely dropped the ball on their designs and only sell now because of reputation. Informed buyers realize how much new Toyotas and Hondas are extreme let downs from former models; VW to a certain extent as well...

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

For me, liveliness of a car comes down to two things: transmission and handling (part of that is chassis too).

If I'm in the market for a second car, I'll take a used Lotus Elise over a brand new 370z (or similar car) in a heartbeat. You can take your beast of a car, but I want mine to handle.

Handing was the issue, though. Apparently it got from point A to point B a lot faster than the base Corolla, but he said that the XRS still lacked the fun factor that he was expecting; the steering and clutch response weren't at all what he was expecting them to be. The suspension was firm, apparently, but there was nothing the made him want to push the car. It was competent, far moreso than the base Corolla - but it never quite got to sporty. Could be that his expectations might have been too high.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by FD3S

Handing was the issue, though. Apparently it got from point A to point B a lot faster than the base Corolla, but he said that the XRS still lacked the fun factor that he was expecting; the steering and clutch response weren't at all what he was expecting them to be. The suspension was firm, apparently, but there was nothing the made him want to push the car. It was competent, far moreso than the base Corolla - but it never quite got to sporty. Could be that his expectations might have been too high.

He was expecting a Toyota to be fun? Was he high or something?

Things I associate Toyota with:
- Mind-numbingly dull drive
- Idiot drivers who doesn't know the difference between low beam and high beam
- Asian driver who leaves the signal on for a f^%king mile. I'm Asian so I can say it
- Whale-cars, Solara was a gorgeous car, but it drove like a boat. Same with the Lexus SC line.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

He was expecting a Toyota to be fun? Was he high or something?

Things I associate Toyota with:
- Mind-numbingly dull drive
- Idiot drivers who doesn't know the difference between low beam and high beam
- Asian driver who leaves the signal on for a f^%king mile. I'm Asian so I can say it
- Whale-cars, Solara was a gorgeous car, but it drove like a boat. Same with the Lexus SC line.

Hahaha, I was so close to asking him this! I guess it came through in my expression, because he just kinda rolled his eyes and said something to the effect of "Dude, they couldn't stop talking about how Toyota finally had something for the enthusiasts - I thought that meant 'hey, it's not boring as f**k anymore! Awesome, I'll give it a go!'"

In retrospect, though - with that engine as a base and a much improved suspension and better styling, the XRS could have done so much better than it did.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by DRII

The Mazda 3 was built on a Ford platform. I agree it was a great subcompact, but it only changed the game for car reviewers and magazines. It's never reached a sales volume to truly change the game.

I agree that Honda and Toyota have definitely dropped the ball on their designs and only sell now because of reputation. Informed buyers realize how much new Toyotas and Hondas are extreme let downs from former models; VW to a certain extent as well...

For the record, the 3 did really well here in Canada - surprised it didn't penetrate further in the States. I mean, it beat the pants off damn near everything else in the price segment when it come out...

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by FD3S

For the record, the 3 did really well here in Canada - surprised it didn't penetrate further in the States. I mean, it beat the pants off damn near everything else in the price segment when it come out...

I'm not surprised. People in the market for an economy/compact car don't generally care for the MAIN selling point of the Mazda 3: Handling.

People general care about reputation, MPG, and soft ride. Which in my humble opinion, the Mazda 3 accomplishes none of them.

The 1st gen Mazda 3 had to ride on Protege's reputation which wasn't all that good (mind you, Protege5 made wagons "cool" again).

Non-Skyactiv Mazda 3 has HORRIBLE MPG. The motor was built for torque and when you have torque, you're just not going to have good MPG unless it's a diesel.

Finally, Mazda 3's ride is far from soft. It's like riding on rocks in relationship to its competitor's cloud/floaty/soft suspension.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

I'm not surprised. People in the market for an economy/compact car don't generally care for the MAIN selling point of the Mazda 3: Handling.

People general care about reputation, MPG, and soft ride. Which in my humble opinion, the Mazda 3 accomplishes none of them.

The 1st gen Mazda 3 had to ride on Protege's reputation which wasn't all that good (mind you, Protege5 made wagons "cool" again).

Non-Skyactiv Mazda 3 has HORRIBLE MPG. The motor was built for torque and when you have torque, you're just not going to have good MPG unless it's a diesel.

Finally, Mazda 3's ride is far from soft. It's like riding on rocks in relationship to its competitor's cloud/floaty/soft suspension.

Always felt for the Protege5 - it seemed to be a critical success, but that never translated into real life. I mean, there were a ton around and the drivers liked to gush about their cars, but like you said; it had the reputation of the base Protege surrounding it already, meaning a great car was perceived as average or a little better than.

I thought the MZ3 suspension was nice and soft too - Racing Beat springs, Konis STR.T's, and MS3 sways went a looooooong way toward fixing that

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by FD3S

Always felt for the Protege5 - it seemed to be a critical success, but that never translated into real life. I mean, there were a ton around and the drivers liked to gush about their cars, but like you said; it had the reputation of the base Protege surrounding it already, meaning a great car was perceived as average or a little better than.

I thought the MZ3 suspension was nice and soft too - Racing Beat springs, Konis STR.T's, and MS3 sways went a looooooong way toward fixing that

Believe it or not, I'm not particularly thrilled with MS3's suspension. It does its job as far as performance goes (and then some), but its setup leads to a rather unpleasant daily driver. It's stiff, there's no other words to describe it. Friends of mine have commented that it's even stiffer than the EVO 8 (one of which has one and from a roll I pull even with him , I'm not going to kid myself and claim the MS3 can smoke an EVO, but it kept up)

Aside from being stiff, the fronts are stiffer and the rear is softer, I believe it's to combat understeer. But in a daily driver, you end up with a ride that's jarring, and the dreaded "highway float" sensation.

But hey, I got what I paid for, not going to complain when world beater such as EVOs are north of $30k and approaching $40k.

[acura9927]

Yeah, I use to have a 2011 Mazda3 with the 2.5 motor. Average 21-22 overall MPG no matter how I babied it. Sold it for a 2012 Hyundai Accent.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by acura9927

Yeah, I use to have a 2011 Mazda3 with the 2.5 motor. Average 21-22 overall MPG no matter how I babied it. Sold it for a 2012 Hyundai Accent.

Same with my 2.3, there are talks that motor is just drinking gas on idle. Hence the horrific numbers for city driving.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

Believe it or not, I'm not particularly thrilled with MS3's suspension. It does its job as far as performance goes (and then some), but its setup leads to a rather unpleasant daily driver. It's stiff, there's no other words to describe it. Friends of mine have commented that it's even stiffer than the EVO 8 (one of which has one and from a roll I pull even with him , I'm not going to kid myself and claim the MS3 can smoke an EVO, but it kept up)

Aside from being stiff, the fronts are stiffer and the rear is softer, I believe it's to combat understeer. But in a daily driver, you end up with a ride that's jarring, and the dreaded "highway float" sensation.

But hey, I got what I paid for, not going to complain when world beater such as EVOs are north of $30k and approaching $40k.

I heard that too - I can't speak for the setup in general, but a lot of MZ3 drivers who swapped in MS3 shocks/springs seemed kind of underwhelmed.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by FD3S

I heard that too - I can't speak for the setup in general, but a lot of MZ3 drivers who swapped in MS3 shocks/springs seemed kind of underwhelmed.

The suspension setup makes a ton of sense on a track, with it smooth surface and ~zero bumps. But on the streets, sometimes it feels like the torture chamber.

Let's just say Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear would not be pleased with the ride.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

The suspension setup makes a ton of sense on a track, with it smooth surface and ~zero bumps. But on the streets, sometimes it feels like the torture chamber.

Let's just say Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear would not be pleased with the ride.

Ah, gotcha. You consider in swapping in new springs/shocks, or are you going to stick with stock for now? Lots of drivers seem to like running Prokits with Koni Sports. The FSD's might be a good choice as well if you don't lower.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by FD3S

Ah, gotcha. You consider in swapping in new springs/shocks, or are you going to stick with stock for now? Lots of drivers seem to like running Prokits with Koni Sports.

I have a set of H&R springs in a box, looking to get Bilstein shocks when the time is right (shocks aint cheap and the installation aint cheap either). Yes, I know I just made a little rant about the car's stiff suspension and here I am talking about new suspension. But since when did modding a car make sense to begin with?

I've done every shifter mod possible and it shifts beautifully now (to me at least). No short shift plates though, my gearbox reacted to it, and it went: "No no, you take that plate off right now." But I do have a short shifter from TWM so the throws are short anyway. Maybe I'm rationalizing my decision to remove the SSP, but I really didn't care for throws as short as a "click". I still want to throw it into gear, know what I mean? Confidence with my shifting is probably more important to me than anything else.

I have a MS CAI, and CP-E TIP. I'm not touching the TIP ever again, it was a nightmare of an install. Those two mods freed up ~25-30hp (as reported by users who have dyno'd their cars after the mod) Mazda's original intake setup was really restrictive. No tune yet, I won't be doing any exhaust mods, the car is loud enough, and I think I'm done with making power with this car. I'm approaching 300bhp just with those two mods, and with a tune, I'm sure I'll break 300bhp. And I humbly remind myself that this is still a FWD, once you go past 300bhp, there's really no point. I also have a Turbosmart BPV for that nice ricer whipped sound. How did I rationalize getting a BPV? The stock was made out of plastic and reported to not hold pressure consistently... well it was made out of plastic, come on man. For the used parts on a good deal, so I jumped on it. I spent about $300 on making power.

This may interest you, there are reports of MS3 having an extremely efficient drivetrain with ~8% power lost from engine to the wheels. There are reports of the stock car dynoing at ~240hp to the wheels. The car is advertised at 263bhp. So it's one of two things, either the car is underrated, or the drivetrain is really that efficient.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

I have a set of H&R springs in a box, looking to get Bilstein shocks when the time is right (shocks aint cheap and the installation aint cheap either). Yes, I know I just made a little rant about the car's stiff suspension and here I am talking about new suspension. But since when did modding a car make sense to begin with?

I've done every shifter mod possible and it shifts beautifully now (to me at least). No short shift plates though, my gearbox reacted to it, and it went: "No no, you take that plate off right now." But I do have a short shifter from TWM so the throws are short anyway. Maybe I'm rationalizing my decision to remove the SSP, but I really didn't care for throws as short as a "click". I still want to throw it into gear, know what I mean? Confidence with my shifting is probably more important to me than anything else.

I have a MS CAI, and CP-E TIP. I'm not touching the TIP ever again, it was a nightmare of an install. Those two mods freed up ~25-30hp (as reported by users who have dyno'd their cars after the mod) Mazda's original intake setup was really restrictive. No tune yet, I won't be doing any exhaust mods, the car is loud enough, and I think I'm done with making power with this car. I'm approaching 300bhp just with those two mods, and with a tune, I'm sure I'll break 300bhp. And I humbly remind myself that this is still a FWD, once you go past 300bhp, there's really no point. I also have a Turbosmart BPV for that nice ricer whipped sound. How did I rationalize getting a BPV? The stock was made out of plastic and reported to not hold pressure consistently... well it was made out of plastic, come on man. For the used parts on a good deal, so I jumped on it. I spent about $300 on making power.

This may interest you, there are reports of MS3 having an extremely efficient drivetrain with ~8% power lost from engine to the wheels. There are reports of the stock car dynoing at ~240hp to the wheels. The car is advertised at 263bhp. So it's one of two things, either the car is underrated, or the drivetrain is really that efficient.

Doubt the car's underrated It somehow doesn't surprise me that out of all the hot hatches, it's the MS3 that has the least drivetrain loss. From the praise I've heard of it, though, the new Focus ST might give it a run for its money.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by FD3S

Doubt the car's underrated It somehow doesn't surprise me that out of all the hot hatches, it's the MS3 that has the least drivetrain loss. From the praise I've heard of it, though, the new Focus ST might give it a run for its money.

No doubt! I like the Focus ST. I just wish the Focus RS will come to America.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

No doubt! I like the Focus ST. I just wish the Focus RS will come to America.

Might depend on how the ST does. Having both those cars in its North American portfolio would be a godsend to enthusiasts, though. I'm still honestly not sure why it took them so long to start sending the good Focuses/Foci over here...

[tennismonkey]

how did this thread devolve into discussion about a torque steering front wheel drive econobox?

mazda rx-7. or mazdaspeed rx-9 turbo GSL limited millenium edition.

[tennismonkey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AUzVZHdTD4Q