Nadal's performances have affected tournament significance

[wangs78]

Originally Posted by woodrow1029

If my calculations are correct, Nadal beat Federer 5 times at Roland Garros out of his 7 victories (4 times in finals, and 1 time in SF).

Out of Federer's 6 WTF championships, he has beaten Nadal 4 times (1 in a Final, 2 in SF, and once in RR play). In the 2 SF years, how is it Federer's fault that Nadal ended up in the other SF?

Also, is it just me, or does the OP have "underrated" and "overrated" backwards for what he is trying to insinuate?

You're missing the OP's point. The OP is saying that Nadal's FO wins have more heft because it was RF ont he other side of the net. Fed's WTF wins usually did not have Rafa on the other side so his WTF wins get underrated.

[woodrow1029]

Well, it still doesn't make much sense to me, since Federer has beaten Nadal in the knockout rounds of 3 of his 6 WTF tournament wins.

[veroniquem]

Rafa is not the biggest rival Fed could have at WTF. Lots of players are better than Rafa indoor. Delpo for instance

[Crisstti]

Who you won against has some effect on how much worth is attributed to a win. Fairly so IMO. Rafa's win in Wimbledon in 2008 is a bigger deal than his win in 2010 for that reason, for example.

[Mustard]

Fact is, Nadal's success against Federer on so many big stages torments some Federer fans. They can't stand how Nadal has leading head-to-heads against all his main rivals (18-10 vs. Federer, 19-14 vs. Djokovic and 13-5 vs. Murray), and wished Federer had such a record against his main rivals.

Sorry guys, but you can't have it all

[veroniquem]

Good point Mustard.

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Fact is, Nadal's success against Federer on so many big stages torments some Federer fans. They can't stand how Nadal has leading head-to-heads against all his main rivals (18-10 vs. Federer, 19-14 vs. Djokovic and 13-5 vs. Murray), and wished Federer had such a record against his main rivals.

Sorry guys, but you can't have it all

It seems to me, that these days the *******s (and Mustards ) are touting the H2H. Most of the Federer fans have long ago moved on.

Living in the past, are we?



Other than that. Nadal performances didn't affect the importance of any event. No matter if he was doing OK or not.

On the other hand, the tournament directors are panicking, if Federer decides not to play. See Basel, for example.

[coloskier]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Fact is, Nadal's success against Federer on so many big stages torments some Federer fans. They can't stand how Nadal has leading head-to-heads against all his main rivals (18-10 vs. Federer, 19-14 vs. Djokovic and 13-5 vs. Murray), and wished Federer had such a record against his main rivals.

Sorry guys, but you can't have it all

True, but let's realize that it isn't Fed's fault that Nadal couldn't make it to the finals to meet Fed in a lot of those tourneys that Fed was definitely favored. And indoor hards isn't Nadal's record against Fed even worse than Fed's record against Nadal on clay?

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by coloskier

And indoor hards isn't Nadal's record against Fed even worse than Fed's record against Nadal on clay?

It's 0-4, and as woodrow1029 has pointed out, Nadal has met Federer 4 times at the YEC over the years, so it's not like Nadal hasn't got to the stage to face Federer. He usually has.

[single_handed_champion]

None of Federer's records are ever underrated in an absolute sense, only people are spoiled for choice when it comes to them. Nadal will never have huge success indoors, so it doesn't matter what his record is there, and anyway, Federer has beaten him multiple times.

Finally, GS >> WTF, no matter which Slam. So no, 7 RGs can never be overrated.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Fact is, Nadal's success against Federer on so many big stages torments some Federer fans. They can't stand how Nadal has leading head-to-heads against all his main rivals (18-10 vs. Federer, 19-14 vs. Djokovic and 13-5 vs. Murray), and wished Federer had such a record against his main rivals.

Sorry guys, but you can't have it all

Convenient that the current members of top 4 are Fed's "main rivals" (despite all of them being 5-6 years younger) when it is to his detriment (H2H records) but when it comes to comparing # of slams (in which Nadal currently trails and most of his fans don't believe will reach), time spent as #1 etc. it's Fed weak era this, weak era that.

If Fed's main rivals are the same as Nadal's then the weak era excuse doesn't hold water when comparing the two, no?

[zagor]

On topic, while Nadal is arguably one of the best players of all time (or atleast will be by the time he hangs up his racquet) he's not more important than the game itself (no one is) so no his performance at WTF/YEC has not affected the tournament significance and while that tourney is certainly not an exo or the equivalent of a 250/500 event (like Nadal fan experts claim) it's still not close to being worth as a FO or any other slam for that matter (irregardless of Nadal's performances in those respective tourneys).

[DropShotArtist]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

7 at any slam cannot be overrated. Are you kidding? I can't believe Fed fans are getting so out of control before Fed even wins the damn thing. How foolish they're gonna look if he loses.

Depends on where the field is stronger.

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by zagor

Convenient that the current members of top 4 are Fed's "main rivals" (despite all of them being 5-6 years younger) when it is to his detriment (H2H records) but when it comes to comparing # of slams (in which Nadal currently trails and most of his fans don't believe will reach), time spent as #1 etc. it's Fed weak era this, weak era that.

If Fed's main rivals are the same as Nadal's then the weak era excuse doesn't hold water when comparing the two, no?

Well, he ends up being compared to them because the ones his own age are too weak, relatively speaking.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

Well, he ends up being compared to them because the ones his own age are too weak, relatively speaking.

Nothing to do with what I posted (and I definitely do not consider, Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, old Agassi, young Nadal etc. weak but that's irrelevant to this argument), the current top 4 are either Fed's main rivals or they aren't, it's a yes or no situation.

If they are his main rivals than the weak era argument doesn't have a leg to stand on when comparing Fed and Nadal (thus we concentrate on comparing their achievements) and if they aren't then the H2H argument doesn't stand.

I personally think that due to Fed's excellent longevity (compared to the Open Era greats atleast) you can't consider only 4 players to be his main rivals, he sort of faced two generation of players (and held his own which is a testament to his mettle) but that's just my opinion.

[Clarky21]

Originally Posted by Crisstti

Well, he ends up being compared to them because the ones his own age are too weak, relatively speaking.

This is true. I mean,do people think is tougher competiton between Cvac and Roddick? How about between Murray and Ljubicic? There is no comparison between those guys at all.

[kaku]

All the majors are just glorified exhibitions, only being played because of their history. Chennai is the only tournament that matters nowadays.

[Tennis_Hands]

Originally Posted by zagor

I personally think that due to Fed's excellent longevity (compared to the Open Era greats atleast) you can't consider only 4 players to be his main rivals, he sort of faced two generation of players (and held his own which is a testament to his mettle) but that's just my opinion.

QFT

10chars

[Ico]

To a Nadal fan, H2H and secondary prizes like the Singles Gold Medal and Davis Cup trophy mean everything.
To a Federer fan, the record for most slams and most weeks at #1 cement his place as GOAT.

Repeat ad nauseam.

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by Clarky21

This is true. I mean,do people think is tougher competiton between Cvac and Roddick? How about between Murray and Ljubicic? There is no comparison between those guys at all.

Nope, there isn't.