Djoker the current benchmark of all round tennis?

[Clay lover]

Originally Posted by VPhuc tennis fan

I wouldn't call Djoker as a baseliner. In fact, all 3 of them are more of counterpuncher (first) and baseliner (second). They do best when they face an attack-style as Fed because that gives them some target or triggers some reactions from them. When they faced each other, and were forced to initiate the attack themselves, they seem not to be as comfortable IMO. Not saying they cannot attack, don't get me wrong.

Djoker initiates attack the best out of the three, that's for sure. And I don't think it's fair to limit the comparison to matchups between the top four.

If you compare Nadal or Djokovic to Fed, then of course they will seem like counterpunchers. But truth is, Djoko and Nad and sometimes even Murray can be pretty aggressive against other not so high ranked pro players. Just shows you the gap in level between even the pro players really.

[VPhuc tennis fan]

Originally Posted by Clay lover

Djoker initiates attack the best out of the three, that's for sure. And I don't think it's fair to limit the comparison to matchups between the top four.

If you compare Nadal or Djokovic to Fed, then of course they will seem like counterpunchers. But truth is, Djoko and Nad and sometimes even Murray can be pretty aggressive against other not so high ranked pro players. Just shows you the gap in level between even the pro players really.

True, but that's what I also said in my previous post "Not saying they cannot attack, don't get me wrong."

[McEnroeisanartist]

Originally Posted by Clay lover

Fed is the benchmark of an all-rounder.
Djokovic a baseliner.
Nadal a counterpuncher.
Murray a ...pusher...

This sums it up.

[McEnroeisanartist]

Originally Posted by JSummers

While Federer may have better attacking game, Nadal with impenetrable defense, Djoker may have most balanced game as of late. Murray is close but slightly lacking in attack.

Here's how I'll rate them in terms of Attack/Defense/Movements per their late appearance.

Djoker: 8/8/8
Federer: 9/7/7
Nadal: 7/9/9
Murray: 7/8/8

I would think the benchmark is Federer reaching the finals of all four grand slams at least five times.

[Djokodal Fan]

If I were to vote for overall better game it has to be Fed.

the guy can attack at will, very soft hands at net and no so bad defense. He may not be up there with Djoker or Nadal as far as Defence is concerned, but his offence and Volley skills easily puts him ahead!

[Mainad]

Originally Posted by Clay lover

Fed is the benchmark of an all-rounder.
Djokovic a baseliner.
Nadal a counterpuncher.
Murray a ...pusher...

Just out of interest. If Murray is just a 'pusher', is he the most successful 'pusher' the tour has ever seen or are there any other players you think of as just 'pushers' who have been more successful?

[NadalAgassi]

I think in the confines of the current and modern game he is. He is equally strong off both forehand and backhand which is definitely not true of Federer, not true of Murray, not true of current Nadal. He has become almost equally good at offense and defense, still slightly better on offense. He is the best returner out there, and his serve is now also a weapon. He is equally good at hitting crosscourt or down the line, his court positioning is impeccable, his defense to offense transition is sublime, and understands all the nuances of the current game. Despite not being a good volleyer he knows how to transition to the net effectively when needed, and still usually wins most points when he does come in. The only things he lacks are things that are almost irrelevant in todays game, feel and touch shots, great volleying skills, really dont matter much today anyway.

[McEnroeisanartist]

Originally Posted by JSummers

While Federer may have better attacking game, Nadal with impenetrable defense, Djoker may have most balanced game as of late. Murray is close but slightly lacking in attack.

Here's how I'll rate them in terms of Attack/Defense/Movements per their late appearance.

Djoker: 8/8/8
Federer: 9/7/7
Nadal: 7/9/9
Murray: 7/8/8

Has he ever serve and volleyed?

[NadalAgassi]

Originally Posted by McEnroeisanartist

Has he ever serve and volleyed?

Why should he. It isnt effective today anyway. Federer rarely does either, he just works his way to net during the point which is the most you can do effectively on todays courts unless you have a Sampras like serve and volley.

[VPhuc tennis fan]

Originally Posted by Spider

Murray's slice puts Djokovic in a lot more uncomfortable position than Nadal's topspin. Murray is able to stay with Djokovic for a long time in most rallies. That can be seen in the last three matches they have played this year.

Like I said, away from clay, from a pure baseline rally perspective, Murray is the only player who comes close to Djokovic. The rest stand very little chance to win the vast majority of the rallies with Djokovic.

Murray's slice perhaps, but then Fed's slice is almost if not even more effective than Murray, no?
What I have in mind is the AO final 2012 lasting over 5-6hr between Rafa and Djoker. Going in time a bit earlier, although Djoker won the other 3GS in 2011 against Rafa, he didn't exactly blow Rafa off the courts either. So when you said, "the rest stand very little chance to win... against Djokovic", I still believe Rafa had a better chance than Murray no matter what the surface is. Today's picture is different though with Rafa being injured for a half of the year, and Murray with one GS title under his belt and becoming stronger mentally (I think!), Murray may edge ahead of Rafa starting from now.

[nikdom]

"benchmark for all around tennis"? Who Djokovic? The guy who never approaches the net, never wins any easy points and has to contort himself 10 feet behind the baseline to make defensive gets is an all-rounder?

Funniest thing I read all day.

His call to greatness are his stretch returns, defensive gets and that backhand DTL. A very good baseliner but I would not call him an all-rounder.

[JSummers]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

I think in the confines of the current and modern game he is. He is equally strong off both forehand and backhand which is definitely not true of Federer, not true of Murray, not true of current Nadal. He has become almost equally good at offense and defense, still slightly better on offense. He is the best returner out there, and his serve is now also a weapon. He is equally good at hitting crosscourt or down the line, his court positioning is impeccable, his defense to offense transition is sublime, and understands all the nuances of the current game. Despite not being a good volleyer he knows how to transition to the net effectively when needed, and still usually wins most points when he does come in. The only things he lacks are things that are almost irrelevant in todays game, feel and touch shots, great volleying skills, really dont matter much today anyway.

Thankyou. Exactly how I see it, hence the post.

[Biscuitmcgriddleson]

The only part of Novak's game that is better than Federer's peak for peak is the backhand. At their peak, Federer's FH, Serve, Volley, and Movement were better than Novak's. I'd say that Defense is more or less equal, but I'd take Federer's since his Movement appears to be less taxing than Novak's.

[TheFifthSet]

Originally Posted by Biscuitmcgriddleson

The only part of Novak's game that is better than Federer's peak for peak is the backhand. At their peak, Federer's FH, Serve, Volley, and Movement were better than Novak's. I'd say that Defense is more or less equal, but I'd take Federer's since his Movement appears to be less taxing than Novak's.

As a fan of both I don't think even Federer was as good defensively as Djokovic. The overall movement is close (what with Feds peerless footwork), but not the defense.

As for the thread, I think Novak is an all-around baseliner, no doubt. But all-around player? Tough to say. In this era there it's hard to tell. Federer fits that profile more, IMO.

[TheFifthSet]

Also lets not forget, Novak has evolved a lot as a player. In his earlier days he fit the mould of an aggressive baseliner. Seldom would he defensive skills be praised then (compared to now).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dav_maKdV4

Take a look at that match. Look at how early he takes the ball, how he runs Nadal from side to side and pounds short balls that are to his FH side. Looks like a completely different player.

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by McEnroeisanartist

Has he ever serve and volleyed?

I'm sure he has. Nadal has too. But no one does it regularly these days because passings are too good. Even at the end of Edberg's career, it didn't work that well anymore. Players do whatever gives them the win. This is not about showing off certain skills but about winning matches. That's how one gets points and money and that's what pro tennis is about.

[hersito]

He is clearly a baseliner, not an all around, he barely goes to the net and when he does his smash and his volley are not very good. The benchmark is federer no doubt.

[jokinla]

Originally Posted by dirtballer

All round? Novak won 3 points at the net during the whole match yesterday.

Exactly, I believe it was 3 of 9, which doesn't scream "all round tennis".

[veroniquem]

Originally Posted by hersito

He is clearly a baseliner, not an all around, he barely goes to the net and when he does his smash and his volley are not very good. .

It may have been true of this particular match but I've seen him show excellent touch at net in plenty of other matches.

[Clarky21]

Can Djesus heal the sick? Make the blind see? Walk on water? He must have made it into the bible with as much worshipping nonsense like this thread that have been started on here about him since he barely eeked out a match against an error prone 31 year old Fed the other day. I bet the guy has a halo,glowing aura,and angels singing wherever he goes as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF4AeHX4R6s