How to improve quickly.

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by Power Player

I plan my serve returns as well. I faced a lot of serve and volley players in my day though. I don't find it odd to do this. I have broken serves by returning the ball to the same spot against certain players.

Listen to this guy. I usually break serve at about a 40-60% rate. That's with pro stock frames, leaded up to 365g, handle heavy, strung tight, with msv hex 1.10mm or bhb7/poly star energy.

[travlerajm]

I sometimes plan my returns, depending on the situation.

In some cases, I plan ahead to use a "go with the pitch" return strategy. That is, if the pitch is away, I hit it to the opposite field. And if the pitch is inside, I pull it.

Other times, I plan ahead to put the return in a particular spot that favors winning the point. This might be "deep and high over the net", or it might be "get the return to his backhand."

Other times, when I play against a very big server who is hitting heavy serves that bounce high, I might return with my grip already in the continental position. This way, I am better prepared to return with a firm volley-like stroke, especially on forehand returns where the ball is up around my head and still rising.

[treblings]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Listen to this guy. I usually break serve at about a 40-60% rate. That's with pro stock frames, leaded up to 356g, handle heavy, strung tight, with msv hex 1.10mm/poly star energy.

what´s your pro stock frame of choice?

[pvaudio]

So the quick guide to improvement is to do every single thing that coaches tell you from day 1?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Realize that in match play, it will always come down to: who holds more, wins more second serve points, and who breaks more, and wins more second serve points.

Let low balls come closer and attack high balls farther out.

One lunge step only.

Really liked the first two.

What does the third one mean?

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by treblings

what´s your pro stock frame of choice?

I've tried the pt57A, h22, and babolat pro stock frames. Currently getting used to the babs. But with bhb7/poly star energy or msvhex1.10mm/energy. Deadly slice with bhb7 and drops, and kicks/twists. Don't like the lack of control. Where is the holy grail?: Deadly spin/great control/great tension maintenance/low price? Does not exist yet.

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Really liked the first two.

What does the third one mean?

One lunge step on returns. All you have time for on a good serve. Have to cover 9 feet on either side with one step.

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

So the quick guide to improvement is to do every single thing that coaches tell you from day 1?

No coach I've met knows about lull-jam-finish modes, or defense of contact point in an arc. That had to be learned the hard way.

[kiteboard]

QUOTE=julian;7029193]Title: The relationship between match statistics and top 100 ranking in professional men's tennis
Machar Reid, Darren McMurtrie, Miguel Crespo
International Journal of Performance Analysis in Sport 07/2010; 10(2):131-138.

Abstract
Match statistics are supplied at the majority of professional tennis tour events. The governing body of the men's tour - the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) - updates players' statistical profiles on a weekly basis. The relationships between the rankings and fourteen statistics describing the match performance of the top 100 male professional players in 2007 were examined to determine which statistics were most related to playing success. Partial correlations determined the strength of these associations and selected variables were entered into a stepwise regression procedure to predict professional ranking. Five variables were significant predictors of top 100 ranking while only second serve return points won and second serve points won remained in the final prediction equation, which accounted for 52% of the variance in professional ranking: predicted men's professional ranking = 548.5 + -666.6 * second serve points won + -319.9 * second serve return points won. This analysis suggests that second serve points won and second serve return points are among the most relevant statistics commonly available to ATP players.[/quote]

[5263]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

No coach I've met knows about lull-jam-finish modes, or defense of contact point in an arc. That had to be learned the hard way.

Imo the lull jam finish is more about where you are on the court, and don't
know how else you would defend the Cp except with your swing arc.

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

No coach I've met knows about lull-jam-finish modes, or defense of contact point in an arc. That had to be learned the hard way.

I think perhaps because those are terms you've made up (at least in respect of tennis). I'm sure the majority of coaches understand defending, trading and finishing for example.

I'm still at a loss to understand how you achieve any of the things you have listed quickly - there are certainly plenty of ways to improve there, but how many can be achieve quickly?!

cheers

[kiteboard]

Just knowing the info will speed things up so much, rather than not knowing it, as I had to teach myself without any help. If you have a mentor he can help you. I had none and took no lessons, and look how long it took to learn the game. I don't know the game from coaching, or a pro. From watching pros play. From trying it myself. From failing over and over to learn it.

No coach I've seen tells students that the contact point is an arc instead of a wall in front of you.

No one has told me to lull opponents to sleep before attacking, while showing them the same coil, the same look, but using a faster uncoil to hit a jamming shot.

These terms are ones I've made up because they are on the mark.

As far as quickly goes, that depends on the individuals confidence and ability to learn quickly.

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by travlerajm

I sometimes plan my returns, depending on the situation.

In some cases, I plan ahead to use a "go with the pitch" return strategy. That is, if the pitch is away, I hit it to the opposite field. And if the pitch is inside, I pull it.

Other times, I plan ahead to put the return in a particular spot that favors winning the point. This might be "deep and high over the net", or it might be "get the return to his backhand."

Other times, when I play against a very big server who is hitting heavy serves that bounce high, I might return with my grip already in the continental position. This way, I am better prepared to return with a firm volley-like stroke, especially on forehand returns where the ball is up around my head and still rising.

I find it interesting that the most comments made in the thread deal with the one item: choosing where to hit returns ahead of time. Of course that's easier to do with second serves as they are weaker shots. First serves are harder to do this with as you have less time. But why the resulting interest in just this one item when there are so many here?


I would have thought there would be more interest in the lull master item. Or serving. Usually, when people pay to learn, from a pro, (Guys who I can usually beat easily, as they are usually only at a 4.5 level), they ask for serving lessons. But that is not true here on the board.


I don't think that it's any different: our weakest shot is the hardest one for us to learn, and for most of us that is: the serve. So why be more interested in choosing return sites? I think because so many don't do that.

[tennis_balla]

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool

What?? Decide where to hit your return before your opponent serves? Are you kidding me? I understand maybe trying to target your opponents weaknesses if you have the opportunity, but on your returns a lot of it is just reacting to the shot you're returning. Being so doctrinaire and mechanical about everything is a recipe for unforced errors.

Why would you let low balls come in closer? Move in and take it out in front of you before it gets too low.

You should have a clear idea of what you are going to do with your return and where you're going to hit it. Just like you decide where you will hit your serve, its the same on the return and in doubles more so.

Pro's do not decide to run around their backhands on a second serve and hit a forehand inside out after their opponent hits the serve. This is pre-determined before the opponent even tosses the ball.

[guitarplayer]

How many Red Bulls have you had today?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

One lunge step on returns. All you have time for on a good serve. Have to cover 9 feet on either side with one step.

Since players usually take only one step on return, you are saying it should be a big step, I assume.

[kiteboard]

One step has to be able to cover the best most accurate serves, so that step has to be able to go big, but only if nec. Many try to take more than one step and never catch up to the ball at all.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by Power Player

I plan my serve returns as well. I faced a lot of serve and volley players in my day though. I don't find it odd to do this. I have broken serves by returning the ball to the same spot against certain players.

I find with serve and volley players I have to be more flexible with my return. If I plan to go to one spot ahead of time, say deep and cross court, they can move in and take it out of the air. Against serve and volleyers, I have to watch them a little bit and be ready to put the ball at their feet if they try to come in.

In doubles I try to go cross court with almost every return. I think that's pretty common.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by tennis_balla

You should have a clear idea of what you are going to do with your return and where you're going to hit it. Just like you decide where you will hit your serve, its the same on the return and in doubles more so.

Pro's do not decide to run around their backhands on a second serve and hit a forehand inside out after their opponent hits the serve. This is pre-determined before the opponent even tosses the ball.

That's makes sense on a second serve where they are trying to be aggressive and take control. On a lot of first serves it seems like people react to the ball more and are forced to hit backhands.

In doubles I was taught to always go cross court with the return. But I usually just hit a backhand or forehand because of where their ball placement was, not because of what I decided to do before hand.

I feel like on certain big points it works well to have a preplanned play, but if I tried to do it on every point, I would be hitting a ton of unforced errors.

I remember that monster forehand return Djokovic hit against Federer down double match point at the us open. I feel like he only takes chances like that in certain situation, because if he did every time, he would be giving away too many free points.

In singles I feel like I react a lot more to what I'm given, instead of going cross court every time. You clearly know what you're talking with first hand experience at the highest levels, so I can't argue. But I feel like even pros as good as Fed have to be flexible and hit a lot of improvisational returns, especially in singles.

[FrisbeeFool]

What's the lull jam?