Most fierce competitor of all time

[zagor]

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

Define talent. With Borg it was more about fitness, mental strength and consistency than great skill, if I am not mistaken.

Yes, because winning FO from the baseline and then completely changing your playing style to win on lightning fast grass few weeks later takes no talent at all.

Are you serious? Borg was one of if not the most adaptable player that ever lived, that's enough of a testament to his talent in itself.

[Phoenix1983]

Originally Posted by zagor

Yes, because winning FO from the baseline and then completely changing your playing style to win on lightning fast grass few weeks later takes no talent at all.

Are you serious? Borg was one of if not the most adaptable player that ever lived, that's enough of a testament to his talent in itself.

I'm well aware of Borg's phenomenal RG-W achievements, and I have watched some of the highlights. I don't think he "completely changed his style" - yes he improved his serve a bit and occasionally came to the net. But he didn't suddenly go from being Vilas at RG to being Edberg at W.

Certainly many players of his era had more skill, most notably McEnroe.

[chrischris]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Connors run in 91 was all heart.

Plus a little bit of experience.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by zagor

Yes, because winning FO from the baseline and then completely changing your playing style to win on lightning fast grass few weeks later takes no talent at all.

Are you serious? Borg was one of if not the most adaptable player that ever lived, that's enough of a testament to his talent in itself.

I agree but I think stamina on clay and the best footwork ever on grass were his unmatched talents since his heavy top spin was not that efficient on low bouncing old grass

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by chrischris

Plus a little bit of experience.

Good point. He worked the crowd like I've never seen.

[Gonzalito17]

Serena hands down. Also Hewitt (prime), Rafa, Pancho Gonzalez, Muster. Serena is a different animal though )

[rafafan20]

Nadal and Serena when she is on

[Gizo]

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

I'm well aware of Borg's phenomenal RG-W achievements, and I have watched some of the highlights. I don't think he "completely changed his style" - yes he improved his serve a bit and occasionally came to the net. But he didn't suddenly go from being Vilas at RG to being Edberg at W.

Certainly many players of his era had more skill, most notably McEnroe.

LOL a comical post. Trying watching full matches of Borg at RG and Wimbledon (which are readily available on the internet through numerous outlets) and not just brief highlights.

Borg went from regular, long gruelling rallies at Roland Garros, where he could outlast anyone including a physical specimen and fitness freak like Vilas, to serve-volleying on 100% of his first serves in many of his matches at Wimbledon. He even occasionally came to the net on 2nd serves to mix things up. In fact there were some matches like his 1973 QF against Roger Taylor when he consistently came to the net on both 1st and 2nd serves. His serve improved more than 'a bit'. It became a fearsome weapon that he worked hard to develop. He was more than capable of serving opponents off the court on faster surfaces, like he did to guys like Tanner and Nastase. Plus he developed his slice to keep his shots lower on grass and also noticeable shortened his backswing on his return of serve. There was a huge transformation between Borg at RG and Borg at Wimbledon.

And a huge LOL at your comment that many players of his era had more skill than him. Apart from McEnroe, I'd like to see the names of these so-called players.

[jrepac]

Originally Posted by Devilito

Connor’s run in 91 was all competitiveness and will to win. His tennis skills had zero impact on those results.

that just might be a slight exaggeration.....I'd say his heart and competitive nature brought out the skills he had left at that point in his career, if anything....

"Fierce" competitor implies something overt, not under the surface. so people like Connors, Serena and Nadal would be obvious picks. We know that there were some "fiercely quiet" competitors, Borg, Evert, Sampras, Fed, etc.

[Paul Murphy]

Hewitt and Connors.
Sharapova - I'm not sure I've ever seen a WTA player hate losing as much as her.

[The-Champ]

Originally Posted by Jeepers

Ferrer !

I used to think of Ferrer as a fierce competitor. However, his last match against Nadal at the FO was pathetic. The dude basically gave up in the second and third set.

[The-Champ]

Originally Posted by Phoenix1983

I'm well aware of Borg's phenomenal RG-W achievements, and I have watched some of the highlights. I don't think he "completely changed his style" - yes he improved his serve a bit and occasionally came to the net. But he didn't suddenly go from being Vilas at RG to being Edberg at W.

Certainly many players of his era had more skill, most notably McEnroe.

how is he more skillful than Borg? Better Bh, fh? lol

[hoodjem]

Originally Posted by kiki

Good post...but Laver did that too as well as Hoad

And Trabert, too.

[NLBwell]

Originally Posted by sonicare

Name me one other player who would win the FO by grinding and then 2 weeks later win SW19 by serving and volleying. If that doesn't need talent, then what does?

The only players who you can't knock for not being able to do the above would be players post 2000 because grass was slowed down.

.

Laver and Budge come to mind immediately.

OK, looked it up.
So post 1947, when Jack Kramer brought in Serve and Volley as the predominant style to 2002 when Lleyton Hewitt won on the slow grass (Ivanisevic won on fast grass in 2001) - people who have won both:

Budge Paddy (often forgotten among the greats)
Tony Trabert
Lew Hoad
Rod Laver (twice)
Bjorn Borg (3x)

Emerson never did it even though he won two French and two Wimbledon.
Doing it 3 times is certainly a great achievement.

[gavna]

The top 3 men who were like dogs with raw meat.......
1. Connors
2. Pancho
3. Kramer

These guys were tough, mean and didn't quit. Name one other player who would have the guts to run to the other side of the court to rub out a mark on Har-Tru like Jimbo did?

I was not a Jimbo fan and was always pulling for Borg or Vilas...etc but on court NO ONE laid it out like Connors......even today no one even close.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by kiki

Wrong.Being cocky or agressive is a genetic question but there are many different ways to be competitive and absolutely nothing to do with behaviour tham inner strength and resilience
Were cold champs like Laver,Rosewall,Lacoste,Borg,Lendl,Wilander,Kodes,S edgman,Kramer,Sampras i,Newcombe,Smith or Federer less competitive than hot extroverts like Tildem,Perry,Budge,Hoad,Gonzales,Nastase,Connors,A gassi,Becker or Nadal?
I do not think so.All of them have made history cause they were all ferocious competitors andit had nothing to do with personaluty

Great point, I've always thought competitiveness came down ultimately to concentration. Champions can be fiery or quiet, so long as their focus remains sharp and undisturbed.

I'm not sure Budge belongs in your second group. He was often described as consistent and even boring compared to some of his rivals.

McEnroe could be added to your group, and I mention him because he's the first player that comes to mind when I think "temperamental."

Add Edberg to your first group.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by krosero

Great point, I've always thought competitiveness came down ultimately to concentration. Champions can be fiery or quiet, so long as their focus remains sharp and undisturbed.

I'm not sure Budge belongs in your second group. He was often described as consistent and even boring compared to some of his rivals.

McEnroe could be added to your group, and I mention him because he's the first player that comes to mind when I think "temperamental."

Add Edberg to your first group.

I added them later on.Mac is one of the natural choices, of course.And so is Edberg in the other group.

Vines can be included in the second group although I really don´t know much about his personality.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by hoodjem

And Trabert, too.

Sure he did.And underrated yet a great champion.he had the misfortune to play in one of the strongest eras, when he became a pro.