Modern Tennis Tips by Oscar Wegner

[arche3]

Originally Posted by treblings

John has put a highspeed video of Dimitrov in the other thread. i am interested how you would analyze it

Will have a look

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by treblings

John has put a highspeed video of Dimitrov in the other thread. i am interested how you would analyze it

The comments on that so far indicate that the hands separate before the bounce and there is good extension before the racket comes across. High frame-rate video shows what is really happening, which can often be missed by the naked eye or preconceived notions.

PS: and no "yanking" or "pull back" is seen

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I'm confused by this last part. Do you think any tennis teaching professional thinks that a player can improve without practice? Or any teaching pro tells his students not to practice?

That kind of post is what gets threads deleted. Makes no sense and is just an attack.

[tennisfan69]

Oscar, Would love to get an analysis for John's recent video link in his thread from Oscar Wegner
http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/tw/dimtrov/

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by sureshs

That kind of post is what gets threads deleted. Makes no sense and is just an attack.

I don't get the recent posts attacking technique discussions.

I realize some people are angry, but at least of lot of them seem to have legitimate differences of opinion. Recently we've been getting angry posts by people arguing that discussing technique is bad and that people should just shut-up and go practice. The whole point of discussing technique is to make the practice more helpful.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I don't get the recent posts attacking technique discussions.

I realize some people are angry, but at least of lot of them seem to have legitimate differences of opinion. Recently we've been getting angry posts by people arguing that discussing technique is bad and that people should just shut-up and go practice. The whole point of discussing technique is to make the practice more helpful.

And yet these people seem to want to read this forum. Why don't they go and practice instead?

[arche3]

Originally Posted by sureshs

And yet these people seem to want to read this forum. Why don't they go and practice instead?

I don't know about others but I'm old and lazy...,

[TennisCJC]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I don't think there is any pull back immediately before contact.

I agree - no pull back that I see. My opinion is you can think stop the off side or even pull back on the off side to generate power on the hitting side. For example for a right handed player, the left shoulder may pull back to speed up the right shoulder and hitting arm. But, I have watched many pro forehand including GD clip and I don't see a pull back at/before contact in the hitting hand, arm or shoulder. Hitting arm seems to flow thru contact - up, thru and across until it wraps and finishes by L shoulder.

[luvforty]

I start to think that all this stuff is hog wash... with some practice, the body should know what motion generates the most power.

if there is a nail at the contact point, and you tell the student to hammer this nail hard into a 2x4 with a FH grip, he will know what motion drives the nail the deepest.

point the nail slightly up towards the sky, then you get topspin.

simple.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by luvforty

I start to think that all this stuff is hog wash... with some practice, the body should know what motion generates the most power.

if there is a nail at the contact point, and you tell the student to hammer this nail hard into a 2x4 with a FH grip, he will know what motion drives the nail the deepest.

point the nail slightly up towards the sky, then you get topspin.

simple.

My guess is that you've never coached or taught tennis. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've found that coaching some students makes a huge difference even in a short period of time. I also know players who have been playing tennis for more than a decade and have terrible form and terrible shots and have never taken a single lesson.

[JohnYandell]

luv,

yes it's all hog wash--except the part about driving nails. That is up there with the ultimate worst tennis tips of all times for so so many reasons, but it would be hog wash to go into why.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

My guess is that you've never coached or taught tennis. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've found that coaching some students makes a huge difference even in a short period of time. I also know players who have been playing tennis for more than a decade and have terrible form and terrible shots and have never taken a single lesson.

have worked with high school/rec players... also have coached golf....

I am not saying 'don't take lesson', I am saying these body-parts analysis is hog wash... if we relate a tennis stroke to another task (e.g. hammering a nail), perhaps student can figure out what motion generates the most power.

[5263]

Originally Posted by arche3

John was wronged by Oscar so he fights against Oscars methods while he himself is hyping his own services under a different banner. I still do not know what the bad blood is about.

This part is not hog wash, and that much is clear.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by luvforty

have worked with high school/rec players... also have coached golf....

I am not saying 'don't take lesson', I am saying these body-parts analysis is hog wash... if we relate a tennis stroke to another task (e.g. hammering a nail), perhaps student can figure out what motion generates the most power.

OK, then I believe you should be more careful about how you express yourself, as I interpreted your original complaint as being a criticism of getting coaching or lessons.

Teaching by analogy might work, but I don't understand your hammering nails comparison. To me, hitting a tennis ball is not at all like hammering a nail.

I don't know how to take a lot of Wegner's advice. It seems to me he is exaggerating things in his descriptive language. For example, the pros don't slowly approach the ball with a fh and then accelerate at the last second. What they tend to do, from my personal observation and slow motion video, is accelerate hard from the end of the backswing into contact. Does his advice give the same result or are students ignoring his advice and accelerating earlier anyway?

[JohnYandell]

WV,

Teaching ideas don't always correspond to reality--that's well accepted. What people find ridiculous is claims about reality that are obviously false and don't correspond to even the most rudimentary physics. And the complete unwillingness to address the errors... it's so revolutionary it doesn't have to bear any relation to reality apparently.

[sureshs]

I am watching the Chennai Open now, and Anand Amritraj is commentating. Two of his comments struck me. He said, in his playing days, the ball would be around the knees, but today it is much higher. and require much more upper body strength. The strength thing was a new insight for me.

The second thing he said was that Cilic's forehand has a technical glitch and he was surprised that his coach Bob Brett has not worked on it.

Here is a challenge to you coaches: what is the glitch, if any? The double pumping too-early takeback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...QJTMTI#t=1007s

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I don't know how to take a lot of Wegner's advice. It seems to me he is exaggerating things in his descriptive language. For example, the pros don't slowly approach the ball with a fh and then accelerate at the last second. What they tend to do, from my personal observation and slow motion video, is accelerate hard from the end of the backswing into contact.

To me, it is not an exaggeration. I mean, the sentences I have put in bold are just the opposite of each other. The first is not a symbolic overstatement of the second.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by luvforty

I am saying these body-parts analysis is hog wash...

It depends on what the motivation is. Federer is probably not interested in the physics of tennis, but the book by Rod Cross and the other guy is a well-respected classic. Many people think that racket design is a farce, but Wilson has a well-equipped design lab for it. Everything has a place. You are assuming that if someone does not discuss body parts, somehow that will make him a better player than he is. It doesn't work that way.

[JohnYandell]

Where the hell is the fh close up super slow mo in this terrible clip??

[treblings]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I am watching the Chennai Open now, and Anand Amritraj is commentating. Two of his comments struck me. He said, in his playing days, the ball would be around the knees, but today it is much higher. and require much more upper body strength. The strength thing was a new insight for me.

The second thing he said was that Cilic's forehand has a technical glitch and he was surprised that his coach Bob Brett has not worked on it.

Here is a challenge to you coaches: what is the glitch, if any? The double pumping too-early takeback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...QJTMTI#t=1007s

interesting challenge, here´s one for you, find a decent video in hd of Cilic forehand for us to analyze