At their best, who would win?

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Day Tripper

It amazes me how people on this forum cling to the past. Has anyone heard of evolution? There is no way any player from the 70's or 80's could foot it with the best players of today. The 90's maybe. Athletes today are stronger faster and have much greater stamina than previous genrations. The further back you go the larger this discrepancy becomes. Hoad, Laver, Tilden and Gonzales wouldn't stand a chance against Federer, Nadal or Djokovic - neither would McEnroe, Lendl, Edberg or Becker. Closer generations such as Agassi and Sampras stand a better chance.

The question of talent is a different one. it is fair enough to assert that Laver has more natural talent then Nadal. I believe he was more talented than Nadal - still I don't believe he could beats Nadal in a tennis match. Nadal would be too quick too strong and have too much stamina for him.

You can't beat evolution.

that is true
That is why Justin Bieber is far ahead Led Zeppelin

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Day Tripper

It amazes me how people on this forum cling to the past. Has anyone heard of evolution? There is no way any player from the 70's or 80's could foot it with the best players of today. The 90's maybe. Athletes today are stronger faster and have much greater stamina than previous genrations. The further back you go the larger this discrepancy becomes. Hoad, Laver, Tilden and Gonzales wouldn't stand a chance against Federer, Nadal or Djokovic - neither would McEnroe, Lendl, Edberg or Becker. Closer generations such as Agassi and Sampras stand a better chance.

The question of talent is a different one. it is fair enough to assert that Laver has more natural talent then Nadal. I believe he was more talented than Nadal - still I don't believe he could beats Nadal in a tennis match. Nadal would be too quick too strong and have too much stamina for him.

You can't beat evolution.

Nadal has stamina? Not recently.

Here's an idea. Take Nadal or Djokovic back to 1958 and let them play Hoad or Gonzales. These two guys played their best match in January of that year,with the scores
4-6, 9-7, 11-9, 18-16
a grand total of 80 games.
Would today's players stand to play an 80-game match? And not wilt? No way.

[forzamilan90]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Nadal has stamina? Not recently.

Here's an idea. Take Nadal or Djokovic back to 1958 and let them play Hoad or Gonzales. These two guys played their best match in January of that year,with the scores
4-6, 9-7, 11-9, 18-16
a grand total of 80 games.
Would today's players stand to play an 80-game match? And not wilt? No way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isner%E..._Championships

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by forzamilan90

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isner%E..._Championships

So, they had two overnight breaks to get 8 or 10 hours sleep in between. Not the same.

I was referring to Nadal or Djokovic. Neither would make 80 games.

[forzamilan90]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

So, they had two overnight breaks to get 8 or 10 hours sleep in between. Not the same.

I was referring to Nadal or Djokovic. Neither would make 80 games.

Maybe not against each other since they would play less games but grind out like crazy. But they have unquestionably great stamina. In other match ups it's possible. If Fed and Roddick can do 77 games in a final, i don't see why these guys can't. Their careers are not done yet.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by forzamilan90

Maybe not against each other since they would play less games but grind out like crazy. But they have unquestionably great stamina. In other match ups it's possible. If Fed and Roddick can do 77 games in a final, i don't see why these guys can't. Their careers are not done yet.

Nadal is close to done.
Djokovic has yet to show deep stamina, and Wawrinka nearly put out his light.

[forzamilan90]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Nadal is close to done.
Djokovic has yet to show deep stamina, and Wawrinka nearly put out his light.

I wouldn't count Nadal out just yet. That guy has made a career out of resilience and proving others wrong.

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

Hoad's "summit" moments (best ever):

1) Davis Cup 1953 df. Seixas and Trabert at Kooyong

2) Davis Cup 1955 df. Trabert and Seixas at Forest Hills

These two Davis Cup ties literally put tennis into the forefront of sports in the fifties, the first mass television audience for the game. (10 million, first sports broadcast by NBC in color.)

3) 1956 Wimbledon df. Rosewall
Hoad became the first player since WWII to follow his first slam win by a second and third. (Only Budge did this also.)

4) 1957 Wimbledon df. Cooper
The Queen broke her longstanding antipathy to Wimbledon to witness this event.

5) 1958 world tournament championship, 5 tournaments, Hoad won on points and money, including wins against Gonzales at Kooyong, Forest Hills, and Roland Garros.
Players include Hoad, Gonzales, Rosewall, Sedgman, Segura, Trabert.

6) 1959 world tournament championship, 14 tournaments, Hoad won 6 tournaments to Gonzales' 4, top points and money, including a 6 to 2 record against Rosewall (including wins at Kooyong, Forest Hills, and Roland Garros).
Players include Hoad, Gonzales, Rosewall, Sedgman, Trabert, Anderson, Segura, Cooper, Giammalva, Hartwig, Rose, McGregor. The strongest field ever assembled.

7) 1961 Kramer Cup (pro Davis Cup) df. Trabert in decider.
Hoad's last display of top form. Trabert had beaten Rosewall.
Also, the 1962 Kramer Cup df. Olmedo in a display of hot form.

9) 1963 Hoad/Laver tour
Whitewashes Laver, including Kooyong televised match at 6-3 in fifth set.
Laver defeats Rosewall in 4 sets next day at Kooyong.

I do not see a comparable set of summit accomplishments for other players, partly because the equivalent opposition for other great players was weaker.

I should add that the closest set of summit achievements to Hoad's belongs to Budge, who won a classic Davis Cup match in 1937, two Wimbledons, won a great head-to-head against Vines, also against Perry and Riggs, a Wembley final against Nusslein, a Forest Hills Pro final against Riggs.

After WWII, Budge, like Hoad after 1960, experienced lack of conditioning and extra weight problems, and, according to Kramer, a propensity for the bottle and the brew (again similar to reports about Hoad). As a result, he had the same trouble with Riggs that Hoad had with Rosewall after 1960. No surprise.

[austintennis2005]

has anyone checked out her record?

-won us open at 16 in her first attempt

-won the grand slam

-only played 3 years and won 9 majors!!

Connolly won the last nine Grand Slam singles tournaments she played, including 50 consecutive singles matches. During her Wightman Cup career from 1951 through 1954, she won all seven of her singles matches.

if she didnt have an unfortunate accident she would have re written the tennis history books.

[timnz]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Women- Serena wins on all but clay. On clay Graf or Seles wins (I think Evert is the greatest clay courter ever, but she would not win in an all peak playing match).

Men- On grass Sampras wins, on fast hard courts Laver wins (he didnt get to play much on it, but with his overall game he would be near unbeatable that type of court on a peak day), on carpet Becker or Sampras wins, on rebound ace Djokovic wins, on clay Nadal wins.

Laver played plenty on hard court - he won around 30 titles on it.

[Relinquis]

men... federer or sampras, slight edge to federer, roger is goat, but against sampras, most current player wouldn't know what hit them... they simply haven't seen anything like his game..

women... serena

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by austintennis2005

has anyone checked out her record?

-won us open at 16 in her first attempt

-won the grand slam

-only played 3 years and won 9 majors!!

Connolly won the last nine Grand Slam singles tournaments she played, including 50 consecutive singles matches. During her Wightman Cup career from 1951 through 1954, she won all seven of her singles matches.

if she didnt have an unfortunate accident she would have re written the tennis history books.

You are right, an awesome player. Maybe even the GOAT, at least if not having that accident.

[mightyrick]

Originally Posted by Graphiteking

The question speaks for itself. Men's and Women's. At the height of their careers out of all the players, who would win? One match, on hardcourt. Men's winner? Women's winner?

OP, it depends on the surface.

[NatF]

Nadal on clay for sure, I'd probably put Borg next to him with modern equipement.

[hawk eye]

Originally Posted by NatF

Nadal on clay for sure, I'd probably put Borg next to him with modern equipement.

Considering Borg got so much topspin consistently with a wooden racket, i can agree. Nadal would see a mirror image of himself at the other side of the net.

Clay:1 Nadal/Borg 2 Kuerten

Slow hardcourt: 1 Djokovic. 2 Agassi

Fast Hardcourt: 1 Sampras 2. Agassi

Grass: 1 Sampras 2 Becker/Edberg

Indoor: 1 Becker 2 Sampras

[NatF]

Originally Posted by hawk eye

Considering Borg got so much topspin consistently with a wooden racket, i can agree. Nadal would see a mirror image of himself at the other side of the net.

Clay:1 Nadal/Borg 2 Kuerten

Slow hardcourt: 1 Djokovic. 2 Agassi

Fast Hardcourt: 1 Sampras 2. Agassi

Grass: 1 Sampras 2 Becker/Edberg

Indoor: 1 Becker 2 Sampras

I'd probably insert Federer into a couple of those brackets myself. I think any medium paced surface be it grass or HC Federer would be top.

[forzamilan90]

Originally Posted by hawk eye

Considering Borg got so much topspin consistently with a wooden racket, i can agree. Nadal would see a mirror image of himself at the other side of the net.

Clay:1 Nadal/Borg 2 Kuerten

Slow hardcourt: 1 Djokovic. 2 Agassi

Fast Hardcourt: 1 Sampras 2. Agassi

Grass: 1 Sampras 2 Becker/Edberg

Indoor: 1 Becker 2 Sampras

hahahahahaha

[hawk eye]

Originally Posted by forzamilan90

hahahahahaha

My bad, how could I forget McEnroe.

Edit:

Fast hardcourt: 1 Sampras 2 Agassi/McEnroe

Grass: 1 Sampras 2 Becker/Edberg/McEnroe

Indoor: 1 Becker 2 Sampras/McEnroe

[abmk]

Originally Posted by NatF

I'd probably insert Federer into a couple of those brackets myself. I think any medium paced surface be it grass or HC Federer would be top.

don't bother. The 'vision' of hawk eye is exactly opposite to what his username is ..

[NatF]

Originally Posted by abmk

don't bother. The 'vision' of hawk eye is exactly opposite to what his username is ..

Oh so he's a troll? I won't bother then...