Silent Ban Discussion

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by Tony48

Djokovic has been "mediocre for years"? Wow. Are you serious? He reached the QF of the French Open at age 19 and the U.S. Open at 20, losing to Nadal and Federer, the greatest clay courter of all time and the greatest PLAYER of all time.

If that's mediocre, then how would you describe the rest of the tour? And to describe Djokovic in the same manner in which you describe Tipsarevic demonstrates how little you actually know about the sport.

Exactly.

Djokovic was destined for success from the very start, you could see he had that special something in him. And for him to be playing in an era where you have the widely acclaimed Clay GOAT, and the GOAT himself playing, and to beat them both and take slams away from them just shows what an incredible player Novak is.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by veroniquem

That is a ridiculous argument. In that case, one could easily say that Fed was a solid top 15 player (his ranking in his early 20s) and all of a sudden suspiciously became an all time great. Djokovic was #6 when he hit 20 (Nadal was already #2) and Fed was # 14 at same age. Hum, how did Fed overcome his natural mediocrity?
Absurd reasoning. + Djoko was not a "mediocre player for years". He won his 1st Miami title at 19. The same year, he won Canada by beating #1, 2, 3 back to back and made his 1st slam final. He would win his second slam final a few months later. 2 consecutive slam finals at the age of 20, how little promise did such a player show, right? Let's be serious here.

No, you need to be serious here. Federer was always talked about as a talented teenager from the get go. He was never mediocre. He had his issues with consistency and the mental aspect. Did he use something to help get over the hump? Probably. Re Djokovic, there is no doubt he is using something, you just need to look at his 2011 year. Gluten-free? Ha, ha, ha, right! It is Nadal however who is at the heart of the controversy right now and there can be little doubt about his case. PED's are a part of pro athletics, they are the norm rather than the exception for elite athletes.

[DRII]

Originally Posted by cc0509

No, you need to be serious here. Federer was always talked about as a talented teenager from the get go. He was never mediocre. He has his issues with consistency and the mental aspect. Did he use something to help get over the hump? Probably. Re Djokovic, there is no doubt he is using something, you just need to look at his 2011 year. Gluten-free? Ha, ha, ha, right! It is Nadal however who is at the heart of the controversy right now and there can be little doubt about his case. PED's are a part of pro athletics, they are the norm rather than the exception for elite athletes.

There is no controversy!!!

Just rampant, strife, slanderous speculation!!!

Thats it, I suggest you learn the difference

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by DRII

There is no controversy!!!

Just rampant, strife, slanderous speculation!!!

Thats it, I suggest you learn the difference

Right! I suggest you get in to the real world and not live some fantasy.

[max pl]

Originally Posted by Tony48

Djokovic has been "mediocre for years"? Wow. Are you serious? He reached the QF of the French Open at age 19 and the U.S. Open at 20, losing to Nadal and Federer, the greatest clay courter of all time and the greatest PLAYER of all time.

If that's mediocre, then how would you describe the rest of the tour? And to describe Djokovic in the same manner in which you describe Tipsarevic demonstrates how little you actually know about the sport.

yeh, he was mediocre compared to the best. he suprised us a few times as i mentioned, but later fell into a slump for quite a bit. and then out of nowhere, BOOM. 72-6 record and all of a sudden he's like superman, running through every player with ease.

and as someone else mentioned, what do you call tipsarevic going from top 100 to top 10? more importantly, right around the time djokovic had his run?

[wy2sl0]

Originally Posted by max pl

yeh, he was mediocre compared to the best. he suprised us a few times as i mentioned, but later fell into a slump for quite a bit. and then out of nowhere, BOOM. 72-6 record and all of a sudden he's like superman, running through every player with ease.

and as someone else mentioned, what do you call tipsarevic going from top 100 to top 10? more importantly, right around the time djokovic had his run?

All this Nadal thing has done is put all the pieces together for a lot of us. For those of you that want to believe your favorite player is clean, keep on keeping on.

Djoker is very obvious. As said in the post above, the guy was consistently running out of gas and/or retiring from matches in the heat or when it got tough. Out of nowhere as said, he plays 6 1/2 hours beating the arguably best cardio man of all time in tennis....how do you not put 2 and 2 together? It isn't even a question of whether they do or not, because they do - it is simply if they got caught or not.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by wy2sl0

All this Nadal thing has done is put all the pieces together for a lot of us. For those of you that want to believe your favorite player is clean, keep on keeping on.

Djoker is very obvious. As said in the post above, the guy was consistently running out of gas and/or retiring from matches in the heat or when it got tough. Out of nowhere as said, he plays 6 1/2 hours beating the arguably best cardio man of all time in tennis....how do you not put 2 and 2 together? It isn't even a question of whether they do or not, because they do - it is simply if they got caught or not.

That is it, and most of the elite stars will not get caught at least while they are still active. The system is set up so that they don't get caught.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by max pl

biggest dopers in tennis are the two serbs.

what a coincidence that they were both mediocre for years and suddenly both jump to top of the rankings within a year. i'd buy it if maybe djokovic got to the top alone, but with his superhuman play the past two years and tipsarevic somehow breaking into the top 10 at the same time, questioning their fair play is deserved.

i hope djokovic gets exposed.

Novak ended the year at #3 every year since 2007, you call that mediocre? He was already a slam winner, multiple slam finalist, reached SF in all 4 slams and had 5 masters titles to his name all before 2011, he was far more accomplished than say Fed was right before he had his boom year in 2004.

Originally Posted by max pl

yeh, he was mediocre compared to the best.

He was one of the best, he was only worse than Fed and Nadal who are both some of the best players of all time.

Originally Posted by max pl

he suprised us a few times as i mentioned,

Yes because:

-Winning a slam title
-Reaching multiple slam finals
-Reaching SF in all 4 slams
-Winning 5 masters titles
-Winning YEC

Constitutes for surprising us a few times, please.

Originally Posted by max pl

but later fell into a slump for quite a bit.

Every players goes through slumps no matter how great, however even during his slump in 2010 Novak finished the year ranked #3 which is telling that he was never that far off.

Originally Posted by max pl

and then out of nowhere, BOOM. 72-6 record and all of a sudden he's like superman, running through every player with ease.

Just not true, the only tourney in which he ran through every player with ease was 2011 AO which is something he also did in 2008 at the same tourney, at FO he lost to a nearly 30 year old Fed, in Wimbledon he struggled with Tomic, Tsonga etc. and in USO again 30 year old Fed gave him tons of trouble.

Not to mention the very poor ending of the season in which he was getting bageled by Nishikori.

Originally Posted by max pl

and as someone else mentioned, what do you call tipsarevic going from top 100 to top 10? more importantly, right around the time djokovic had his run?

Tipsarevic didn't went from top 100 to top 10 just like that, he spent 4 years in a row in top 50 (one of them was in top 40 actually) before reaching top 10 in 2011, similar situations happens fairly often, see Davydenko or Verdasco, Wawrinka, Almagro, Melzer etc.

The field outside the big 4 is pretty shallow at the moment, it's no surprise that a talented headcase like Janko reached top 10 once he found some consistency.

[DropShotArtist]

Djokovic is not serving a silent ban, Nadal is, you do the math.

[jaggy]

Just because a guy gets so ripped so fast doesnt mean....oh right.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by wy2sl0

All this Nadal thing has done is put all the pieces together for a lot of us. For those of you that want to believe your favorite player is clean, keep on keeping on.

Djoker is very obvious. As said in the post above, the guy was consistently running out of gas and/or retiring from matches in the heat or when it got tough. Out of nowhere as said, he plays 6 1/2 hours beating the arguably best cardio man of all time in tennis....how do you not put 2 and 2 together? It isn't even a question of whether they do or not, because they do - it is simply if they got caught or not.

I think all stars in the game are doping personally but Novak was not consistently running out of gas, his 5 set record prior to 2011 was excellent and he was able to hang with Nadal in some very tought matches like 2009 Madrid SF.

Heck in 2009 for example he played 97 matches compared to "only" 76 in 2011 and still wasn't drained at the end of the year like he was in 2011 as he won 2009 Paris, it makes no sense claiming his endurance/fitness/stamina/whatever was on such a different level in 2011 compared to previous years, his much improved serve in 2011 compared to 2009 and 2010 was far more crucial.

Yeah, he had a habit of retiring from matches, which didn't change in 2011 as he retired against Delpo in DC and Murray in Cincy final.

[Tony48]

Originally Posted by max pl

yeh, he was mediocre compared to the best.

So....compared to two other people, he's mediocre. Umm.....how about we compare Djokovic to the rest of tennis, and not just Federer and Nadal. In this case, Djokovic himself is one of the best.

he suprised us a few times as i mentioned, but later fell into a slump for quite a bit. and then out of nowhere, BOOM. 72-6 record and all of a sudden he's like superman, running through every player with ease.

There was no "boom". It was not "out of no where". He 1) already had a slam, 2) was a contender for all four slams every single year since the 2007 French Open, 3) had already established that he could take care of both Nadal AND Federer, and 4) shown that he could beat any single person on tour.

Perhaps your expectations of Djokovic weren't quite accurate considering what he had already achieved.

And as for "running through every player with ease", perhaps you missed the French Open and his near loss at the U.S. Open....and all the matches where he went 3 sets at Masters.

and as someone else mentioned, what do you call tipsarevic going from top 100 to top 10? more importantly, right around the time djokovic had his run?

Top 100? LOL. Way to short change him. He finished 38th in 2009 and 49th in 2010. "Top 100" implies that he finished near 100....when that is not true at all.

[corners]

Originally Posted by Gonzalito17

The mainstream media are mostly controlled.

Controlled by whom?

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by zagor

I think all stars in the game are doping personally but Novak was not consistently running out of gas, his 5 set record prior to 2011 was excellent and he was able to hang with Nadal in some very tought matches like 2009 Madrid SF.

So what you are saying basically is that Djokovic has been doping the whole time he has been on tour then?

[Vrad]

Originally Posted by max pl

yeh, he was mediocre compared to the best. he suprised us a few times as i mentioned, but later fell into a slump for quite a bit. and then out of nowhere, BOOM.

I don't buy this. Even Federer thought said that the only reason Djokovic wasn't winning a lot was because he was mentally weak.

Djokovic's talent and physicality was never suspect. The mental aspect of his game was.

[wy2sl0]

Agree to disagree heavily.

Djokovic's fitness was very suspect before 2011. His level of play was lower, and some may argue considerably. A switch was flicked, and he barely lost matches for 6 months, in that period completely demolishing one of the best players of all time who had an insanely good H2H against him (Nadal).

[Bartelby]

Apparently some of the sports press did know about Tiger's philandering ways but chose not to publish both because of his reputation and because Tiger bestowed access to media that might have proved troublesome otherwise.

But this is great media managment by the rich and the powerful, which is not that hard for them to do usually.

The simple truth about tennis is that they scarcely have enough money to do any serious testing and it will stay that way until a scandal forces them to invest money.

[Tony48]

Originally Posted by wy2sl0

Agree to disagree heavily.

Djokovic's fitness was very suspect before 2011. His level of play was lower, and some may argue considerably. A switch was flicked, and he barely lost matches for 6 months, in that period completely demolishing one of the best players of all time who had an insanely good H2H against him (Nadal).

1) Djokovic lead the H2H against Nadal on HC BEFORE 2011
2) Djokovic proved that he could beat Nadal on clay (Madrid 2009)
3) Djokovic proved he could beat Nadal on grass (Queens 2008 )

Your efforts to make this completely black and white is extremely disingenuous.

[Clarky21]

Originally Posted by Vrad

I don't buy this. Even Federer thought said that the only reason Djokovic wasn't winning a lot was because he was mentally weak.

Djokovic's talent and physicality was never suspect. The mental aspect of his game was.

And what helped the mental aspect of his game that saw him not lose a match for 6 months, win 3 slams in one year, and have the best year of his career so far? Davis Cup? He didn't even play that well in the DC final in 2010, and did not clinch the win for Serbia. Just exactly what caused him to fix all of his mental weakness overnight at the very end of 2010?

Most people without blinders on know exactly what it was/is that saw Eeyore go from a career #3 weakling to unbeatable in the blink of an eye. And it wasn't confidence from DC or some bs gluten-free diet.

[cc0509]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

Apparently some of the sports press did know about Tiger's philandering ways but chose not to publish both because of his reputation and because Tiger bestowed access to media that might have proved troublesome otherwise.

But this is great media managment by the rich and the powerful, which is not that hard for them to do usually.

That is correct. These journalists know what is going on with these sports stars and celebs but they make deals such as gaining access to the celeb but not publishing anything iffy. The media is totally controlled by big business, i.e. in sports the big sports agencies for example. All of these articles that you read in trash mags like People and US magazine are all stories spun by the PR agents themselves for the most part. They write what they want the public to believe about these celebs and put out stories at a time when a big movie or tv series needs to be promoted.