Are strategies relevant today in Modern Tennis?

[LeeD]

Exactly true in EVERY sport.
Now with video, even more so.
Everyone studies his opponent's.
Everyone who is smart anyways.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by 5263

Only thing odd about that is everyone was blown away that VERY common Jr
strategy would work on the ATP against maybe the best player of all time!
And yes...that is strategy and takes a ton of dedication to employ.

It also pitted a forehand against a backhand, the best topspin against the second best one, and (as the next shot), an ambidextrous backhand which was really another forehand. "Lesser Nadals" like Verdaco and Lopez could not succeed against Federer.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by r2473

Have you ever wondered why there are players that seem to come out of nowhere and have an amazing tournament but can never follow it up?

The answer is, once a player "matters", they get analyzed and their weaknesses are discovered. Next time out (or very soon), all their opponents know how to play them (ie; what strategy or tactic to use).

Not really. Guys like Rosol die just like that on their own, without anybody analyzing their videos.

[luvforty]

fed has never lost to a leftie besides rafa

[luvforty]

rosol died? still in top 100

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by sureshs

It also pitted a forehand against a backhand, the best topspin against the second best one, and (as the next shot), an ambidextrous backhand which was really another forehand. "Lesser Nadals" like Verdaco and Lopez could not succeed against Federer.

So they have to employ a different strategy?

[dominikk1985]

yes they do play a role, actually a big role.

however you cannot use a basic strategy like "everything CC till you get a short ball" or like the "directionals strategy" since their opponent would see the pattern within 2 minutes and "sit" on the balls he expects.

that means you have to mix it up and think along with the opponent.

this is like in poker. against bad players you can just play the good hands and fold the bad ones because the beginner will often overplay his cards and play too loose.

likewise at the lower levels a strategy like directionals (against ball A I will just play CC shots and against ball B I will also play DTL) or playing most CC will work.

however I often said a well executed shot that the opponent expects beats a bad shot that surprises the opponent. this means the lower the level is the more you should orient yourself on what you can execute. knowing yourself and what you can do and what not is very valuable and win you a lot of matches against similar level opponents.

however against the good players in poker you have to think on a higher level (he expects me to do this so I will do this). the same applies to high level tennis.

the better the player is (even in the high levels- fed plays much more "freestyle" then the "normal 10-20 guy) the more shots you have (and the ability to play the low percentage shots you should not do according to directionals) and the more you can mix it up and play the shot the opponent doesn't expect.

this looks like chaotic (and you are right that the modern flexibility of shot making does increase the variety) but in fact it is a constant battle of the minds which is based on a lot of experience in this match, other matches against the same player and also other matches.

[luvforty]

is there more strategy in this match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8IJ0F01IiU

or in rafa v. joke aussie final 2012.

what is the strategy factor vs. the brutal force factor in 2012 vs. 50 years ago.

i think the answer is black and white.

[TennisCJC]

lots of strategy on ATP and WTA.

Watch Fed hit short, low slice to Djoko and Del Po because they don't like and their reply usually let's him run around and hit FH.

Fed will also use a lot more drop shots against Del Po and Berdych than quicker better movers.

Watch Fed hit BH up the line against Rafa to tempt Rafa to go CC into the open court which is Fed's FH. Watch Rafa not take the bait and go back the line BH to BH to stay on Fed's BH. A couple of years ago when Fed beat Rafa in Madrid, Fed used this almost to perfection as he hit a ton of very deep BHs up the line to Rafa BH and then took control off Rafa's reply.

Rafa will take pace off the 1st serve to get more in and avoid laying in his weaker 2nd serve.

Rafa tries to step in and take the ball earlier at Wimby, but when Rafa lost to Djoko a couple of years ago, Rafa dropped back in the 3rd set and played that set like a clay court match. He was well back behind the baseline and it took Djoko a long time to figure it out. Way too long in my view.

Almost all the ATP pros will occasionally hit a 1st serve kick wide in the ad court to open up the FH side.

Also, strategy is not always go to the BH. Soderling had pretty good success going flat and hard to Rafa's FH which resulted in a short loopy ball fairly frequently.

Also, Li Na and Sharapova have relative FH weaknesses and many will play their FH side.

Murray hit lots of slices in the USO final against Djoko because Djoko was handling the pace better than the soft stuff in the wind.

These are just a few things I see but I am sure there are a lot more.

Tons of strategy and tactics at pro level.

[arche3]

Of course there is strategy and percentage play. It is more important the better you get. Your complete lack of tennis knowledge is shown again. At the rec level all it takes is to get the ball back one more time. Which is why you cannot imagine the pros need it. At the pros they need to create the opening. And that takes strategy.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by luvforty

fed has never lost to a leftie besides rafa

Incorrect.

[bad_call]

Originally Posted by arche3

Of course there is strategy and percentage play. It is more important the better you get. Your complete lack of tennis knowledge is shown again. At the rec level all it takes is to get the ball back one more time. Which is why you cannot imagine the pros need it. At the pros they need to create the opening. And that takes strategy.

think consistent shot execution trumps strategy.

[sureshs]

Hope everybody realizes that thread title is an exaggeration and responds accordingly

[arche3]

Originally Posted by bad_call

think consistent shot execution trumps strategy.

If you blast fhs to an atp pro he will rarely miss. So they use strategy to move the other guy out of position. So they create the point. Why do you think they all say defend the center of the court?

[Ash_Smith]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Hope everybody realizes that thread title is an exaggeration and responds accordingly

too late for that. people take you literally because you are so literal in other threads.

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Hope everybody realizes that thread title is an exaggeration and responds accordingly

I'd give suresh the benefit of doubt on this one... certainly strategies are relevant to a degree.

but that degree is less than 50 years ago. or 20 years ago.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by luvforty

I'd give suresh the benefit of doubt on this one... certainly strategies are relevant to a degree.

but that degree is less than 50 years ago. or 20 years ago.

Exactly.

And tennis instruction needs to catch up. We cannot teach the way it was done before. A new form of instruction based on what the pros do (actually don't do) is needed.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Exactly.

And tennis instruction needs to catch up. We cannot teach the way it was done before. A new form of instruction based on what the pros do (actually don't do) is needed.

Please kill me. Your saying its not happening now? I hear junior coaches trying to teach strategy against big huge pace and spin. You can bet fed and all the rest of atp is thinking about this and not just blastinf balls. Please some coach set this guy straight. Balla? Anyone? Yandel? I'm sure jy has strategy in his coaching.

[treblings]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Exactly.

And tennis instruction needs to catch up. We cannot teach the way it was done before. A new form of instruction based on what the pros do (actually don't do) is needed.

who is the we you talk about? you´re the one who relies on tips over the internet and now you´ve mutated to a coach yourself?

[luvforty]

if we think about the degree (instead of the existence) of the influence of strategy in deciding matches..

courts are getting smaller because -

1) athletes are getting faster
2) surface is slower
3) diminishing net play.

therefore not only the north-south dimension has been taken away for the most part, the east-west dimension has been made smaller.

therefore the less degree of strategy influence.

no doubt strategy is still a big factor today... survival of the fittest... I'd be curious to hear from coaches, on the time devoted in training, to the ball striking part vs. the strategic execution part..... today vs. many years ago.