Are strategies relevant today in Modern Tennis?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Michael Merriweather

You're right that it doesn't require much brain power to figure this out, but that's because tennis is a fairly simple game to think about off the court, it's the physical component, which you seem to disdain that is hard.

Other way around. I believe that the physical component (athletic ability, racket skills, endurance) is the main thing. The strategies are either very simple, or don't seem to be as important as claimed.

[TomT]

Originally Posted by Relinquis

sureshs,

a couple of quick questions:

- do you play tennis, even recreationally?
- have you seen pros play live? male pros.

tennis viewed from the angle that is broadcast on most TV channels is very different from being court-side. you lose a lot of perspective and basically have very little idea of what kind of shot the players are hitting from that angle and how they are moving.

to see what i mean, check out these warm-up/practice points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyGpK3Kd1GU

They look far more intense, complicated and have a lot more subtleties that most matches shown on TV because the angle is more realistic.

Great vid(s) Relinquis. Roddick has awesome technique. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Relinquis

strategy matters, otherwise you wouldn't have 30 year olds double bageling 23 year olds at the pro level.

I would rather say it that strategies matter because good players use strategies. They use strategies as a guide to producing a competitive edge from some existing condition or situation.

[TomT]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I believe that the physical component (athletic ability, racket skills, endurance) is the main thing. The strategies are either very simple, or don't seem to be as important as claimed.

Yeah, agree.

[LeeD]

Geez, I guess it's a waste of time to study video of your opponent and prepare your game accordingly.
Better to hit an all nighter and play the match of your life.

[TomT]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Spinal flexibility..
Women have it is spades over men. Yoga is the reason.
You don't need flexibility to serve a tennis ball.

.............

[TomT]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Geez, I guess it's a waste of time to study video of your opponent and prepare your game accordingly.
Better to hit an all nighter and play the match of your life.

Seems like a bit of a leap, from what was said.

[LeeD]

No better player than DeonSanders said preperation and film work is much much more important than any other factor. He was one of the most gifted players ever physically.

[TomT]

Originally Posted by LeeD

No better player than DeonSanders said preperation and film work is much much more important than any other factor. He was one of the most gifted players ever physically.

Who's DeonSanders?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by TomT

Great vid(s) Relinquis. Roddick has awesome technique. Thanks.

I would rather say it that strategies matter because good players use strategies. They use strategies as a guide to producing a competitive edge from some existing condition or situation.

I think many pro players just rely on their strengths and play a reactive game. They don't seem to be thinking at all. Commentators keep speculating on their strategies and contradicting themselves frequently as they try to find a pattern where there is none.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by LeeD

No better player than DeonSanders said preperation and film work is much much more important than any other factor. He was one of the most gifted players ever physically.

However, RogerFederer or RafaelNadal did not say it, which is the point.

[TomT]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I think many pro players just rely on their strengths and play a reactive game. They don't seem to be thinking at all. Commentators keep speculating on their strategies and contradicting themselves frequently as they try to find a pattern where there is none.

Regarding today's top level tennis, I basically agree. Though I think they do also employ strategies.

Like some MMA guy said, "Everybody has a plan ... until they get hit."

[sureshs]

The smartest ones employ strategies. They actually change things over a match. Fed and Nadal are good examples. I am not sure about others. Roddick seemed to be a guy who did not do much thinking.

[sureshs]

Great example yesterday. Andy Roddick was tweeting to the Tennis Channel about how well Djokovic was playing. Then he adds:

When I would be playing, experts would say he needs to go for more on his shots instead of holding back. The moment I missed one of them, they would switch to: he needs to play safe with high percentage tennis. It is a easy game on the couch.


Shows how a lot of this strategy stuff is BS.

[LeeD]

Sorting strategy from BS, or armchair QB's from the real thing.
One of my best tennis adversaries can return my serves with his forehand every time aggressively with great placement...low and away from me.
My strategy. Don't hit to this guy's forehands when I need the point, but hit there occasionally to keep him honest and from camping on his backhand side....
Strategy.

[ollinger]

TomT
The quote about everyone having a plan is generally attributed to Mike Tyson.

[5263]

Originally Posted by ollinger

TomT
The quote about everyone having a plan is generally attributed to Mike Tyson.

Yep and it goes back even further in different versions like in battle, where there
is a plan till the shooting starts.

[treblings]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Great example yesterday. Andy Roddick was tweeting to the Tennis Channel about how well Djokovic was playing. Then he adds:

When I would be playing, experts would say he needs to go for more on his shots instead of holding back. The moment I missed one of them, they would switch to: he needs to play safe with high percentage tennis. It is a easy game on the couch.


Shows how a lot of this strategy stuff is BS.

No it doesn´t. it shows how everybody has an opinion, and how important it is for a player to find his own strategy, based on his own abilities and what he feels comfortable doing.

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by sureshs

What I see in the ATP:

Unreturnable first serve
Serve which can just be returned weakly
Weak return is put away with a stroke to which it is humanly impossible to get
Forehand and backhand winners which are humanly impossible to get
Very simple strategy - put the ball where the other guy isn't, which covers drop shots, lobs, open court shots, and angled shots.
Maybe catch him wrong footed once in a while.

The entire game is based on statistical output of serve and its return, and after that the statistical nature of groundies - meaning you can't do anything with them most of the time if they are hit right.

The players don't seem to use their brains at all. Perhaps it is not needed? It is about serves, desperate returns, and the ability to run to get to a shot with no guarantee of success. My observation is that trying to "hit one more ball" seems to be a failure most of the time, with the small number of successes touted by commentators.

To summarize, big serve, a desperate return to hang in there, and devastating winners. Strategy seems to be an afterthought. I think most players are too exhausted with the big play to even think of strategy.

On the WTA:

Essentially the above, with the difference that getting the serve is a huge obstacle for the women. The ones with a smooth serve motion can be counted on one hand. Is something seriously screwed up about their serve training? Or is it just that the ATP men are just so much superior? I look at the average WTA service motion and I notice an errant toss and an awkward attempt to correct it, and the body parts moving awkwardly. They have somehow turned this into a high probability success event. Perhaps this is what male club players should aspire to? Just admit that ATP-style serves are not possible and focus on maximizing the returns on a flawed serve like the WTA?

There is strategy, but not much. Mainly it's who is in better mental and physical shape, it's SO BORING, only player I can watch is Fed because he once in awhile comes forward, and does incredible shots.

I mean who can watch this? 15 shot rallies, waiting for someone to make a mistake, what a bore!

[Wegner]

This is a great thread, with some great observations as well. It is so interesting that the top four have been so dominant, and that their tactics are so different.

In my opinion, they operate in the Zone more often than the rest of the field, seeing the ball slower and much more in present time. They are also more complete technically, have less weaknesses to exploit. They serve consistently well, both in power and accuracy.

i like Sureshs analysis. Players are going for more winners, more forceful shots, and still, some incredible long rallies between the top players occur over and over. Such is the speed and the brilliance of the top four.

[bad_call]

watched a 1st round AO match and strategy didn't help get the win but it got a few games.