Cristophe Rochus: Doping rampant, mentions Nadal and Soderling

[marc45]

Originally Posted by Mustard

The ATP would be dumb as hell to do that. What's to stop Christophe Rochus, or any other player, going public with it?

that's what i just said above...written letter?...where is it?...no reason to hide it now...did he throw it away?...e-mail?..did he keep it in a file?...and horrible journalism by radio twizz if they didn't follow up with that exact question.."do you have that letter christophe?"

sure, let's hear from the atp

[DRII]

Originally Posted by nikdom

The need for you to personally insult me only belies your frustration at not being able to cover up the obvious - which is that you accused those players of doping.

What exactly is 'serious supplementation'? You even called me naive for mentioning nutritional supplements. You accuse Serena and Stosur of doping as much as you are calling out Rochus for allegedly doing the same.

Your comprehension is horrible!

Did you miss the whole genetic anomaly thing

Reread the damn quote!

Most women, no matter how fit, would never naturally look like Serena or Stossur (right now). They're genetically anomalies as in gifted, blessed when it comes to strength/muscle tone and most especially muscle mass.

Why is that so hard for you to understand

No wonder you're naive enough to believe that most women on the WTA are lazy cows; if you expect them to look like Serena/Stossur...

[Towser83]

Originally Posted by President

My point wasn't that Del Potro or Berdych are the most obvious dopers (they aren't) but that they are not above suspicion. If so many players are indeed doping, do you really think non doped athletes could be competitive with them? Del Potro's fitness isn't amazing but maybe it would be much worse without PEDs. I remember earlier in his career it was absolutely terrible, now he can go 5 sets with Ferrer and Federer on clay!

well he did go5 sets with Federer on clay back in 2009 as well

Originally Posted by Mustard

If Armstrong is guilty, then he's guilty, and deserves to be punished for it. However, with a system based on plea bargains, which corrupts the whole process, a safe conviction just isn't possible in my opinion. As I said before, we don't know if Armstrong's confession is genuine or him cutting his losses under plea bargaining. The dossier used to ban Armstrong only had circumstantial evidence, mostly from plea bargained cyclists/witnesses.

So the plea bargain was, confess... on OPRAH?? Interesting plea bargain, I had expected them to require an official confession not one on a chat show

[jones101]

I find it interesing that since Errani has stopped working with that Valencian doctor, her results have been slowing worsening.

[Speranza]

Originally Posted by Mustard

If Armstrong is guilty, then he's guilty, and deserves to be punished for it. However, with a system based on plea bargains, which corrupts the whole process, a safe conviction just isn't possible in my opinion. As I said before, we don't know if Armstrong's confession is genuine or him cutting his losses under plea bargaining. The dossier used to ban Armstrong only had circumstantial evidence, mostly from plea bargained cyclists/witnesses.

Well I agree that he should have been stripped of his titles, hence punished.

What would be the point of him plea bargaining with this admission now? He's already lost those titles.

Don't get me wrong Mustard, I see where you're coming from with the fact that his colleagues seemed to have sold him out for their own benefits, and that is arguably worse. In this scenario, it seems no one is innocent of something - him, his colleagues, and the governing body.

It's quite depressing in some ways.

[Laurie]

Originally Posted by President

Credit to MTF for this article





http://www.rue89.com/rue89-sport/201...s-le-legaliser


Very interesting stuff

Thanks for posting this.

It is quite clear that when Mark Miles was in charge of the ATP, things were covered up as Agassi has proved.

What is interesting is whether things have moved on since that period of the early noughties or whether the ATP / ITF obsession in slowing the game down will ultimately backfire as some matches now go on forever and players feel they need to recover quicker. All just speculation and accusations but at the same time something doesn't seem quite right about today's game.

[marc45]

one other thing, conspiracy the other way from what nadal-haters like..radio twizz is in belgium but very much a french station and we all know how a lot of french feel about nadal...just sent twizz an e-mail asking if they asked rochus if he has that letter and if they got a new follow-up from atp

[marc45]

Originally Posted by Laurie

Thanks for posting this.

It is quite clear that when Mark Miles was in charge of the ATP, things were covered up as Agassi has proved.

What is interesting is whether things have moved on since that period of the early noughties or whether the ATP / ITF obsession in slowing the game down will ultimately backfire as some matches now go on forever and players feel they need to recover quicker. All just speculation and accusations but at the same time something doesn't seem quite right about today's game.

fair enough, agassi's use certainly wasn't performance-enhancing so they may have rationalized it that way, but still wrong

"doesn't seem quite right"...idk, what's right?

[Relinquis]

Christophe raises some serious questions. I do tend to think that a lot of tennis players are doping, but i doublt that i could tell which for sure. What do we know for sure?

- Several players have brought attention to doping in tennis, saying that it is a problem.
- ATP has covered up drug use (the Agassi issue)
- Some players were caught out (e.g. the Argentinians: Chela, Coria)

There is a lot of money riding on these players and keeping up the brands that major corporations and advertisers have invested in. I would love to see more testing and a fairer, more transparent system in place even if it meant that one of my favourite players turns out to be a user, but i have little faith in this happening. The best we can hope for is rules that make tennis more skill/talent oriented rather than entirely about stamina, height, recovery time and physical strength (the stuff drugs influence more easily).

I'm not interested in speculating on, or rumours about, which players are doping, because considering how tribal most people are about their avatars/heroes, it won't enlighten us in most cases.

I don't agree with Christophe that it should be legalised and accepted. I want to see real human beings compete and inspire us, not juiced up science projects. I might as well watch formula one where it's more about technology than the driver; i prefer karting.

[vive le beau jeu !]

Originally Posted by Mustard

But Lance Armstrong didn't fail a doping test. So where's innocent until proven guilty? The system is full of plea bargains, thereby corrupting the whole process. I don't see how any conviction can be safe in such an environment as that. I read in a newspaper yesterday that the USADA wanted to do a deal with Armstrong to allow him to keep his first 5 Tour de France titles. When Armstrong refused all their plea bargains, and then said that he would no longer defend himself, the USADA went for the maximum punishment, and then the USADA had the audacity to act like a drug free sport was their motivation for throwing the whole damn library at Armstrong. Their real reason was to punish Armstrong for resisting all their plea bargains.

Originally Posted by The Bawss

There is no hope for you. It's like a religion. You can't have a rational argument with any person with such "faith". Also just so you know, as far as tennis players go, Muster is also a prime suspect for using PEDs.

Originally Posted by Speranza

We don't know. You're right, plea bargaining corrupts the process.

But another 'fact', as you say, is that he was doping and is publicly admitting it.

Whether treated as guilty or not, as you say again, he was doping.

Mustard, you're admired by many here, including myself, but to quote someone else in another thread, you're splitting a hair into four here etc. You're trying to change the goal posts now that he's admitted it himself, to a goal regarding corruption and plea bargaining. Please, for your good name. Stop

It matters not that the governing body are corrupt, as I'm sure most sports governing bodies are guilty of at some stage - heck, as most people are at some stage in their lives. The point is, even if others were doing so (and it's sickening that one particular is making money from admitting it), Lance Armstrong was doping.

Originally Posted by Clarky21

He's still a lying, filthy doper. He admitted he doped, and did everything he could do to avoid getting caught. He's scum.

Originally Posted by President

What? The guy has now apparently ADMITTED to doping. What more do you want?

Originally Posted by DropShotArtist

He's admitting on OPRAH for godsakes. You have you learn to deflate you ego occasionally.

Originally Posted by reversef

Stop that nonsense, Mustard. Things are very clear, and have been for quite a while.

[NadalDramaQueen]

Originally Posted by Towser83

So the plea bargain was, confess... on OPRAH?? Interesting plea bargain, I had expected them to require an official confession not one on a chat show

That's the genius of it.

Mustard, I was with you at the beginning, but it seems pretty clear now that Armstrong is guilty.

[Amelie Mauresmo]

Actually Tyler Hamilton said Armstrong DID fail a doping test and it was swept under the rug. All Armstrong had to do was donate some cash and his problems disappeared. Armstrong is not going down in flames alone when that Oprah interview airs on Thursday he is taking down a lot of people with him.

[Speranza]

Originally Posted by vive le beau jeu !

LOL

Did Cesc Fabregas write on that appl- sorry, banana?

[sureshs]

Did Rochus try doping with the human growth hormone?

[Sid_Vicious]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Did Rochus try doping with the human growth hormone?

Yeah, I kinda wanna know more about that. If Rochus brothers were contemplating using the growth hormone as grown men, with the epiphyseal plates in their bones completely calcified, taking growth hormone would not do anything for their heights.

[President]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Did Rochus try doping with the human growth hormone?

No, did you read the OP?

My brother and I have always been clean. We could have taken growth hormones, but we never did it. We thought it was not worthy. Maybe we should have…. Maybe we would have never been caught up… Maybe my brother would be 17 centimenters (6.69 inches) taller and he would have been in the top 10… Everyone has to make choices. Do we really want to be in the worldwide top at all cost or are we content to be just a very good athlete, it’s all personal

[President]

Originally Posted by Sid_Vicious

Yeah, I kinda wanna know more about that. If Rochus brothers were contemplating using the growth hormone as grown men, with the epiphyseal plates in their bones completely calcified, taking growth hormone would not do anything for their heights.

They were probably talking about when they were younger.

[vive le beau jeu !]

Originally Posted by Speranza

LOL

Did Cesc Fabregas write on that appl- sorry, banana?

it's said cesc tatooed 'for sure i wasn't 100%, no ?' on multiple parts of his body (and also 'rosol doesn't exist' on his left buttock, and 'now wasn't the right moment' on the right one).

by the way, about the banana pic, i'm starting to wonder if it's not related to the following one:


EDIT
sorry i was a bit slow, i just got it !
it's an banana, of course...

[heninfan99]

Incorrect. Lance's teammates went on 60 minutes. One was an eye witness and they used the same refrigerator. C. Rochus offers nothing. Not a shred of evidence.

You're just paranoid. Lots of players are above suspicion to most fans. Like Federer.
Don't let a sour player slime our sport merely by mentioning Lance Armstrong.

Originally Posted by Max G.

Just like it was libel when people accused Armstrong of PEDs before.

It was literally libel, they got sued and had to pay him money as awarded by courts and and everything. And yet they were right; at this point it's clear beyond a reasonable doubt that Armstrong doped heavily and seriously.

I think it's pretty clear that nobody in any sport is going to be above suspicion now, which is sad but true.

[Sid_Vicious]

Originally Posted by President

They were probably talking about when they were younger.

Yeah, but I doubt HGH therapy would have helped Rochus gain 6 inches.