Wide stance return of serve? Watching Aussie Open

drak · 01-21-2013, 11:02 AM

and really noticed now many players are using a very wide stance for their returns and pretty much do not split step. Is this another step in the evolution of the modern game? Martina made this observation several days ago and she was correct.

LeeD · 01-21-2013, 11:17 AM

Wide stance for when you expect serves going wide to you, so you can move out wide.
You get used to that stance, and it also allow you to pivot away for body shots.
I've always used at least a 36" wide stance.

moopie · 01-21-2013, 12:24 PM

I can't imagine not split-stepping. That'd be insane. Do you have some video of this?

They have a wide ready stance, but as the ball is tossed they go upright and split step.

jakeytennis · 01-21-2013, 05:41 PM

that's what i've been doing for years.
it just gets your center of gravity lower so you can be quicker

ramos77 · 01-21-2013, 08:04 PM

EVERY pro split steps, they may have a wide stance but they still split

SystemicAnomaly · 01-21-2013, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drak

and really noticed now many players are using a very wide stance for their returns and pretty much do not split step. Is this another step in the evolution of the modern game? Martina made this observation several days ago and she was correct.

Don't believe I've ever seen this. Any videos to support this assertion? I'll keep watching the AO this week to see if I notice it. Note that there is a version of the split-step where the player does not actually jump. It is sometimes used in badminton, futbol/soccer, baseball (fielding) and other sports. The players suddenly lowers their COG in order to move quickly in any direction. It is a timed move just like the jumping split-step in tennis that usually comes to mind when we hear the term.

Cheetah · 01-21-2013, 10:42 PM

more players are starting to do this recently. for return of serve they have a very wide stance and knees are bent more than before and instead of a traditional split step they do more of a gravity step type thing.

moopie · 01-21-2013, 10:52 PM

Someone please name a player. I'd like to see this non-split step. It just seems impossible.

Cheetah · 01-21-2013, 11:40 PM

it's still a split step. just not as big and not as straight up and down as it used to be. I guess maybe people are starting to copy djoko's method. That's basically what it is.

SystemicAnomaly · 01-22-2013, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah

it's still a split step. just not as big and not as straight up and down as it used to be. I guess maybe people are starting to copy djoko's method. That's basically what it is.

This seems to be the case from what I've observed. I just went looking for ROS samples of Murray, Federer and Djoko. The Murray videos that I saw were from 2 years ago. He did not employ a wide stance at all. From his moderate stance, he took a step forward and then executed a very pronounced split-step.

Federer and Djoko come to mind when I think of wide ROS stances. Even with the wide stance, Roger still had a generous split-step. However, Novak's split step was rather subdued compared to Andy & Roger. Nonetheless, Novak still had a split-step as Cheetah indicates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8pZu4BdvT0&t=9m

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Qh-r77Sk4

SystemicAnomaly · 01-22-2013, 02:29 AM

Just watched a bit of the Berdych-Djoko QF. Both men employed wide stances on ROS. Berdych performed a couple of mini-bounces and then a deliberate split-step jump. Djoko often employed a quick double hop on his ROS. The 2nd hop (split-step) appeared to coincide with Berdych's ball contact on the serve.

moopie · 01-22-2013, 10:20 AM

So basically the "classic" split step would have the feet closer together when hopping, then landing with the feet wider apart.

This "new" (is it really all that new?) split step has the feet wide at the start, then a hop and land with the feet at the same width apart.

I just don't want anyone to think there's no actual leaving of the ground, even if it's only half an inch. A split step is a must.

Here at the 2 minute mark of the video is a very obvious Djoker step.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Qh-r77Sk4#t=1m59s

TheCheese · 01-22-2013, 11:55 AM

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Why would you start with your feet really close together? Who is doing it the "classic" way?

It seems only natural to start with a wider, more athletic stance.

Cheetah · 01-22-2013, 12:14 PM

I've noticed wawrinka now does this too. Very wide stance for the return and they kind of do a little shuffle / split step hybrid thing now. It's like they move like crabs instead of the big hopping split step.

dominikk1985 · 01-22-2013, 12:17 PM

lleyton hewitt did that more than ten years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=396qtU_GcnA

graf did that too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-FfQUoU-DU

LeeD · 01-22-2013, 12:19 PM

Can't see using a stance much narrower than 36".
That allows you to go out wide either side, yes, but more important, it allows you to pivot on one side to handle body shots.
In pro tennis, lots of guys aim right into your forehand hip. You gotta counter, and only a wide stance allows you to counter that shot.

Cheetah · 01-22-2013, 12:26 PM

Here you can see stan do the little crab steps vs novac:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JyUcSlo3jo

compared to say james blake's and agassi's form here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VASqsQFovW0

Cheetah · 01-22-2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985

lleyton hewitt did that more than ten years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=396qtU_GcnA

graf did that too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-FfQUoU-DU

yea. well i don't know how recent it is but in general return stances are wider these days with less of a pronounced step forward and big hop.

moopie · 01-22-2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCheese

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Why would you start with your feet really close together? Who is doing it the "classic" way?

It seems only natural to start with a wider, more athletic stance.

Well I said closeR together, not close together. All this is really about is how wide is a player's preferred stance.

As dominikk1985 shows in his links, there's really nothing new going on here.

SystemicAnomaly · 01-22-2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCheese

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Why would you start with your feet really close together? Who is doing it the "classic" way?

It seems only natural to start with a wider, more athletic stance.

Take a look at videos of Murray from 2-3 years ago. Not a wide stance yet still very athletic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZWrAU6GUVU
.

01-21-2013, 11:02 AM	#1
drak Professional Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,053	Wide stance return of serve? Watching Aussie Open and really noticed now many players are using a very wide stance for their returns and pretty much do not split step. Is this another step in the evolution of the modern game? Martina made this observation several days ago and she was correct.

01-21-2013, 10:42 PM	#7
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	more players are starting to do this recently. for return of serve they have a very wide stance and knees are bent more than before and instead of a traditional split step they do more of a gravity step type thing. __________________ Yonex VCore 100s - SW 351 6pts HL Tour Bite / N.VY 16 @ 51lbs

01-21-2013, 11:40 PM	#9
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	it's still a split step. just not as big and not as straight up and down as it used to be. I guess maybe people are starting to copy djoko's method. That's basically what it is. __________________ Yonex VCore 100s - SW 351 6pts HL Tour Bite / N.VY 16 @ 51lbs Last edited by Cheetah : 01-21-2013 at 11:47 PM.

01-22-2013, 02:29 AM	#11
SystemicAnomaly Legend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Stuck in the Matrix somewhere in Santa Clara CA Posts: 7,730	Just watched a bit of the Berdych-Djoko QF. Both men employed wide stances on ROS. Berdych performed a couple of mini-bounces and then a deliberate split-step jump. Djoko often employed a quick double hop on his ROS. The 2nd hop (split-step) appeared to coincide with Berdych's ball contact on the serve. __________________ . Every tool is a weapon -- if you hold it right. (~Ani DiFranco)

01-22-2013, 12:14 PM	#14
Cheetah Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,243	I've noticed wawrinka now does this too. Very wide stance for the return and they kind of do a little shuffle / split step hybrid thing now. It's like they move like crabs instead of the big hopping split step. __________________ Yonex VCore 100s - SW 351 6pts HL Tour Bite / N.VY 16 @ 51lbs