Feedback/tips for serve

[luvforty]

Originally Posted by Dimcorner

Well, the ball looks slow to me, but that doesn't mean I can reach it in one step :\ I can see the ball and react VERY FAST to them, but some will still be out of reach or I'm just not in the optimal position (again, still getting used to hitting angles and court size). I do play head games (like in badminton) of baiting the opponent to hit open court and just before the swing closing the angle.

yeah, see that type of skill is useless at the baseline.... so your low hanging fruit is at the net.... it's too obvious

[LeeD]

If I was 5'7", I would not copy the game of Dr.Ivo, Isner, Milos, DelPo, Soderling, or Berdyk.
I would look closely at the games of the guys close to my own size.
Just like DelPo doesn't try to copy Rochus's game, nor does he copy Ferrer's, even though he loses to Ferrer.

[luvforty]

forget about all these guys.... OP needs to copy Laver.

watch Laver play badminton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8IJ0F01IiU

[luvforty]

more badminton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHaN2h21ANs

[LeeD]

Some people would question the relevance of a 40 year old style of play when it's to be applied to the play of today.
1. We hit harder now.
2. Cement rec courts are fast, yes, but most tourney's are played on slower surfaces.
3. The big changes in racket seem to favor a gain in groundies as opposed to any gains in volleys.
4. A topspin lob is often seen even in 4.0 level tennis.
5. It takes much longer to learn an all court game than just a baseline game.
6. Try if if you dare, don't expect to win too many.

[luvforty]

at 4.5s ? come on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBtqj9yfONw

all the progress in the pro game is irrelevant at the 4.5s, not to mention the 4.0s.

do you have any idea how GOOD this guy's overhead, volley and drop shot will be?

if he parks at the baseline, he wastes all that asset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8SZynE4N1w

let OP decide, if he prefer to park at the baseline, or pick off all those floaters at the net.

we are talking about OP, being a 5.0-5.5 equivalent in badminton! he should play badminton brand of tennis... and you want him to park at the baseline and play pingpong like all the other guys in the videos above?

[LeeD]

He should try it, it might work.
I do know a relative beginner at tennis who was a national level badminton player in Vietnam, and he was short and adopted a pure net game. He quickly, within 3 years, made lower level 4.5. But, he never got better! Without a baseline game, his lack of height is a shortcoming.
I"ve played him maybe 30 sets, me being a strong 4.0 in at the time, and we came out overall very even in game and set scores.
In other words, it CAN work, but not the recommended path.

[LeeD]

Oh, of his 3 sons, NONE adopted his grip or his net game. All 3 made 5.0's, played in college, and all use western grips and baseline style of play.

[luvforty]

we are talking about low hanging fruit here.... get to 4.5 asap, then worry about topspin so he can hang baseline if he choose to.

i don't think your friend would make 4.5 in 3 years by parking at baseline.

the 3 sons... with no badminton background, that's entire different scenario.

[LeeD]

Actually, the oldest son is a better badminton player than his dad.
He's still using Western grips, 2hbh, and chooses to stay back.
But, he's Americanized.

[luvforty]

5.0, college ball, sure, kinda difficult for conti only.... again, different scenario.

[Dimcorner]

Hey thanks for all the feedback and opinions.
I am actually a doubles specialist in badminton so hanging at the net is very comfortable for me, however I do know the shortcomings of it and I think at the 3.0 to 3.5, maybe 4.0 I can get away with it.

I played a pusher and was up 4-0 but then I tried to hit harder to close out and lost the set 4-6 (I know!). Anyhow I switched to serve and volley and I then beat him 6-1 and 7-2 in the tie breaker.

I don't think I want to specialize in ONLY serve and volley, but I do want to be comfortable with it to be able to use it. I do want to get better at the baseline as well because you kinda have to in case you have to hit 2nd serves right?

Anyhow today I went out and tried to drop my arm more and it worked pretty good. I was getting WAY more spin on the ball. I have to work now on getting that as automatic and then the next step is placement. I can hit right now "leftish" and "rightish" angles but I can't exactly aim for lines yet. I also tried more speed and it worked ok. I have to get it more under control since I ended up banging my shin again .

Today I tried to hit with the crazy nadal grip on forehand and a more standard grip as well and they both feel ok to me. I seem to expend much more energy with the crazy grip but they do have quite a bit more spin! I can't decide on that one.

Anyhow thanks for both of your views (leed and luvforty). You guys are great and have given me enough tips and ideas to consider to keep me entertained and have a plan for improvement/practice. I'll keep you guys updated!

[luvforty]

i meant you go in on everything, that includes 2nd serve, return of serve, everything.... like this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O_UW...Xcr3Lw&index=6

how do you bang the shin, you don't with the badminton smash.

yeah, the topspin stuff, can come over time.... but you have the luxury to go up the ranks quickly... a rare luxury other people don't have.

tennis is lot more fun when you go up the ranks

[Dimcorner]

I bang the shin because I'm now swinging something about 4x the weight

The momentum is a bit more than I'm used to so my leg gets in the way

[LeeD]

You can strap on a soccer plastic shin guard for now.
Once you change your serve to hit upwards at the ball, and also finish with a high hand, high elbow, the chances of hitting your shin get much smaller.
And when you work on direction of your serves, it get's smaller again, until you only hit your shin maybe once a year or so, and that's when you're not paying attention to your serves.

[luvforty]

is there a swing path issue here?

is a badminton smash supposed to be 'up' swing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJNX1IA4hQ

here Oscar has a good explanation where you basically throw the racket tip towards a 'up' direction... so basically the energy should have released after impact, and the arm just falls down..... shouldn't smack the shin if you swing this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QL1s...cr3Lw&index=23

the first one, Gerald, you can see the racket head has released all the energy after impact and the whole thing just falls down.

[Dimcorner]

Well badminton is a forward swing with a good amount of wrist rotation at the peak. Racquet ends up about waist level but you have to remember that the racquet is about 86g (or a hair about 3oz) so... yeah if I try to swing a tennis racquet at the speed I swing badminton I will de-socket my shoulder

So I will practice swinging upward and finish with elbow high. If I'm swinging up how do you impart forward velocity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH6qFJoySf8

This is Fu Haifeng. #1 ranked world doubles doing a smash. If you turn up the volume a little you can hear how WICKED that sounds. He is teaching how he hits it (in chinese thou). There is a slow motion capture in this clip.

[luvforty]

oh you will get velocity forward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlPVdppfYGs

swinging this way actually does not change the path that much geometrically... but allows you dump out all the energy..... and you swing more freely without worrying about smacking the shin.

you get more spin too.. and a spinny / kicky ball is just as if not more difficult for the returner to handle.... you get more safety margin and more time to rush to the net.

Edberg / Rafter - great serve/volleyers who play this way.

that Fu smash.... WOW !!

[Dimcorner]

That's a nice vid and explanation going "up the mountain". Will try it next session for sure!

[Endless Met]

Do you push off the back leg?