China The New Hotbed

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by Bash and Crash

Holy mother load!!! That pro is loving it, and the parents are just plain $tupid. But if you got and want to chase the dream money is no object. I predict we never hear of this kid in the future.

You can say that again.

[raging]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

TCF remember a couple of years ago there were a few on here making a big deal about the Spanish way of teaching and that they had the best system and clay courts were the best way of teaching, I said it all comes in cycles ? I personally dont see the next wave of Spanish coming up to dominate and it looks a little like the US women are having a little surge but will see , I am just looking for the next cycle .

If you build a competition system like Spain or France then you get a mass of players competing, the trick is to keep them in the system, doing something in the sport. The cycle is helped when you get a no. 1 or some top 50 players..they all push each other, then you get momentum...you get 2 british girls/women, 2, 3 US girls...you don't need many.

If China build there own tournament system they will definitely have the numbers! Once they do that it will be interesting to see if they get a cycle going. It gets a focus then people get interested in the sport, winning tournaments especially majors, lasts.

The coaching is another issue but you are right it all goes in cycles, waves.
The trick is to catch the wave, ride the momentum & stay there for 5,10 years.While that top player is on top of the wave you try to get a few lesser players to practice with them so that some of the magic golddust settles!
The Spanish Men have done really well the last 10 years, you only need a couple of players to push the others.

[onehandbh]

China may have over a billion people, but percentage-wise very few
people play tennis. Same with India.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by 10istalent

The $700 breakdown is as this: 4 hour privates ($150x4=$600), 1 hour fitness trainer $100. We live in NY, where everything is expensive.

I heard one hour lesson from Uncle Nick would cost that much

[andfor]

Originally Posted by Chemist

I heard one hour lesson from Uncle Nick would cost that much

What's unbelievable is folks are dumb enough to pay it.

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Bash and Crash

Holy mother load!!! That pro is loving it, and the parents are just plain $tupid. But if you got and want to chase the dream money is no object. I predict we never hear of this kid in the future.

How can you conclude that the parents are stupid?

We don't know, maybe their tennis expense is less than 1% of annual income or a much smaller percentage of net worth. Meanwhile, it wouldn't surprise me if lots of parents right here on this Board are paying upwards of 5-10% of annual income on their kids' tennis.

Looking at nominal amounts rather than percentages in any business or family isn't the best way to take risk or maximize material enjoyment/the return on investment.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by onehandbh

China may have over a billion people, but percentage-wise very few
people play tennis. Same with India.

Plus i don't think they have any of those inner-city kids we have that are super athletic freaks ?

[Number1Coach]

On a real note was watching the LO LO jones story and I dont know what to think is she a liar or what ? She talked about how many hrs. of detailed training and extra work she put in to get that level , I have been led to believe these types of great athletes are just real special genetically .

I think if China gets rolling they would probably take off considering all the forced labor they will have and upper edge , compared to our kids there are very few like Roger , Rafa , LoLo , Jordan who just end up buying into a hard work ethic regimen that has caused us all to be spell bound .

[BMC9670]

I work with the Chinese extensively in my job and have traveled there a few times in the past two years. There is no tennis infrastructure there yet. Hard to find courts, private programs, it's not within schools, etc. While the success of Li Na and others will help, it will be the government that will be the make or break for tennis in China. If they see an opportunity for notoriety in the sport and choose to pour resources into it, look out. Otherwise, it will be a long, slow slog for private enterprise to build the sport in the country. That's just how it works there.

Also, big cities in China are so awfully polluted, people do not enjoy being outdoors, much less playing a sport out doors.

[schang70]

Michael Chang opened a tennis academy in China a few years back and was supposed to work with the Chinese to raise their level to international standards. Haven't heard much about the academy or his efforts recently, wonder if he is still involved. Michael Chang is very popular in China and maybe he can lay the foundation in building a tennis infrastructure there.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

How can you conclude that the parents are stupid?

We don't know, maybe their tennis expense is less than 1% of annual income or a much smaller percentage of net worth. Meanwhile, it wouldn't surprise me if lots of parents right here on this Board are paying upwards of 5-10% of annual income on their kids' tennis.

Looking at nominal amounts rather than percentages in any business or family isn't the best way to take risk or maximize material enjoyment/the return on investment.

5-10%? 30% after tax on my son.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

I work with the Chinese extensively in my job and have traveled there a few times in the past two years. There is no tennis infrastructure there yet. Hard to find courts, private programs, it's not within schools, etc. While the success of Li Na and others will help, it will be the government that will be the make or break for tennis in China. If they see an opportunity for notoriety in the sport and choose to pour resources into it, look out. Otherwise, it will be a long, slow slog for private enterprise to build the sport in the country. That's just how it works there.

Also, big cities in China are so awfully polluted, people do not enjoy being outdoors, much less playing a sport out doors.

I think this is a pretty good assessment

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by schang70

Michael Chang opened a tennis academy in China a few years back and was supposed to work with the Chinese to raise their level to international standards. Haven't heard much about the academy or his efforts recently, wonder if he is still involved. Michael Chang is very popular in China and maybe he can lay the foundation in building a tennis infrastructure there.

Not sure how much time Michael Chang actually teaches tennis in China. I think he is pretty busy playing exhibition and senior tours.

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

5-10%? 30% after tax on my son.

Holy mackerel!!

Not for me to say the Chinese billionaire, or you, is stupid.

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

Holy mackerel!!

Not for me to say the Chinese billionaire, or you, is stupid.

A friend of mine is a lot crazier - they would spend almost everything after basic family needs on their daughter and son's tennis training. Both kids were attending a full-time tennis academy. The daughter is playing for a Big 10 power house. The son is a blue chip. For many Chinese families, children are the main focus of their daily life!

We could have spent the same amount for our son to attend a good private school. About 30% of children in Delaware attend private schools. Would you say that these families are stupid and waste their money? Would the children attending private school have a better life than those attending public schools? But I am sure that these parents just want their children to have the best education possible. For us, tennis would allow my son to have a lot better chance of getting into an Ivy. Tennis has made my son happier and healthier, given him confidence, allowed him to meet so many good friends... It's really worthy every penny!

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

A friend of mine is a lot crazier - they would spend almost everything after basic family needs on their daughter and son's tennis training. Both kids were attending a full-time tennis academy. The daughter is playing for a Big 10 power house. The son is a blue chip. For many Chinese families, children are the main focus of their daily life!

We could have spent the same amount for our son to attend a good private school. About 30% of children in Delaware attend private schools. Would you say that these families are stupid and waste their money? Would the children attending private school have a better life than those attending public schools? But I am sure that these parents just want their children to have the best education possible. For us, tennis would allow my son to have a lot better chance of getting into an Ivy. Tennis has made my son happier and healthier, given him confidence, allowed him to meet so many good friends... It's really worthy every penny!

Agree. Not for me to judge. Hope the intention behind my prior post was not misunderstood

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

Agree. Not for me to judge. Hope the intention behind my prior post was not misunderstood

I do agree with you that spending $700 a day or $250,000 a year is insane or not very smart!

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

I do agree with you that spending $700 a day or $250,000 a year is insane or not very smart!

If $250,000 is 30% or less of the family's annual after tax income, how can we say it is not smart?

Now, if the money is being spent so the kid has "a lot better chance of getting into an Ivy", of course it is good to understand those odds.

Each Ivy sport has its number of "slots" with its admissions office. The candidates it proposes to the admissions office need to have academic stats close to or above the minimum Academic Index score. I would say for tennis there are two, maybe three slots per year.

Some Ivies require each sport to meet the Academic Index minimum. Others combine the scores across all sports, so that if the recruits in some sports are a little below the threshold, a high Index number in other sports can compensate.

In the former case, sports...not only tennis....can be a tiebreaker between two applicants with the same academic credentials, as long as those credentials exceed the Index standard. In the latter case, unfortunately for tennis families, Ivies usually look to tennis recruits to offset low Index scores from kids in other less civilized athletic pursuits. So at these schools the tennis recruits probably would have been admitted even without tennis.

Links about the academic index have been posted here before you joined, but if you google it, you will be directed to the key sites

[Chemist]

Originally Posted by Misterbill

If $250,000 is 30% or less of the family's annual after tax income, how can we say it is not smart?

Now, if the money is being spent so the kid has "a lot better chance of getting into an Ivy", of course it is good to understand those odds.

Each Ivy sport has its number of "slots" with its admissions office. The candidates it proposes to the admissions office need to have academic stats close to or above the minimum Academic Index score. I would say for tennis there are two, maybe three slots per year.

Some Ivies require each sport to meet the Academic Index minimum. Others combine the scores across all sports, so that if the recruits in some sports are a little below the threshold, a high Index number in other sports can compensate.

In the former case, sports...not only tennis....can be a tiebreaker between two applicants with the same academic credentials, as long as those credentials exceed the Index standard. In the latter case, unfortunately for tennis families, Ivies usually look to tennis recruits to offset low Index scores from kids in other less civilized athletic pursuits. So at these schools the tennis recruits probably would have been admitted even without tennis.

Links about the academic index have been posted here before you joined, but if you google it, you will be directed to the key sites

That family wanted to make their son a professional tennis player. However, top tennis coaches in China did not want to train him. Based on this only, I just don't think spending $250,000 a year in US would make this kid a touring pro that can make a decent living. So, this is not smart money.

On the other hand, if the boy is smart and is willing to work hard, he may improve his tennis enough to become a 5 star. In addition, he may get 2,000 SAT to meet minimum AI for an Ivy. Again, if getting into a top college is the goal, then one only needs to spend far less than $100,000 a year with Evert or Bollettieri.

How about donating $1,000,000 to an Ivy? Would that help kids' admission?

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by Chemist

That family wanted to make their son a professional tennis player. However, top tennis coaches in China did not want to train him. Based on this only, I just don't think spending $250,000 a year in US would make this kid a touring pro that can make a decent living. So, this is not smart money.

On the other hand, if the boy is smart and is willing to work hard, he may improve his tennis enough to become a 5 star. In addition, he may get 2,000 SAT to meet minimum AI for an Ivy. Again, if getting into a top college is the goal, then one only needs to spend far less than $100,000 a year with Evert or Bollettieri.

How about donating $1,000,000 to an Ivy? Would that help kids' admission?

I think the minimum AI for Ivy athletes is about 190. Safe is maybe about 210. Don't see where 2000 SAT is the key criterion or minimum. Maybe that donation would help you, who knows!