topspin and grips

[jakeytennis]

I am just curious on how exactly semi western and western forehand grips allow for more topspin.

never completely understood this.


is it because these grips allow for a faster windshield wiper motion?

or is because the racket face is more closed allowing for more brushing contact?

can you help explain this to me?
thank you.

i used to have a SW grip but now have an E grip, btw

[dman72]

Originally Posted by jakeytennis

I am just curious on how exactly semi western and western forehand grips allow for more topspin.

never completely understood this.


is it because these grips allow for a faster windshield wiper motion?

or is because the racket face is more closed allowing for more brushing contact?

can you help explain this to me?
thank you.

i used to have a SW grip but now have an E grip, btw

The bolded part.

Think about it...with a Western grip if you swing completely flat, you are still brushing over the ball and imparting topspin...it's almost impossible to hit completely flat with a Western grip..you'd have to contort your arm.

As your grips move more and more towards continental, it becomes less and less natural to create topspin. You still can, but it's not nearly as easy.

The exact oppostie applies to slice. Slice comes naturally with a continental grip on the forehand.

[dominikk1985]

with a western you have the strong part of your hand below the handle which means you have a good leverage to pull up.

with the eastern grip you are behind the handle which means you can extert most force forward.

the more closed racket face and the more angle between forearm and racket (which causes the pronation to swing the racket perpendicular to the forearm instead of more forward) might also play a role.

[TennisCJC]

W and SW allow a more closed racket face at impact. They also best suited for hitting topspin from higher contact points. Try hitting a topspin shot with a continental grip with the contact point above your shoulders to see what I mean.

W and SW became more common at pro level when USO and AO grandslams changed from grass to hardcourt in 70s and 80s. When 3 or 4 grandslams were on low bouncing fast grass, continental grips ruled the day as it is suited for low bounces, slices (which grass rewards), and volleying.

W and SW also were common in California even in the 70s and 80s as California has a lot of hard courts.

[LeeD]

Also remember...
To be successful as a short JUNIOR, all the now pros had to deal with high bouncing balls, since they are short as kids. They learned to pummel those high bouncing balls with strong grips, and kept the grip as they grew.
Since conti grip favors slice, and strong W favors only topspin, it stands to reason W-SW is the favored grip for topspin modern tennis.
The whys are not important, because the grips are well understood.

[jakeytennis]

thanks guys

[jakeytennis]

about the closed face generating more topspin

/o <---- imagine this as a racket with a closed face hitting a ball

and imagine this ---> lo as a flat face hitting a ball

how exactly does /o brushing up create more topspin than
lo brushing up?

[anubis]

Originally Posted by jakeytennis

about the closed face generating more topspin

/o <---- imagine this as a racket with a closed face hitting a ball

and imagine this ---> lo as a flat face hitting a ball

how exactly does /o brushing up create more topspin than
lo brushing up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImeQaAyFPc

Watch how Federer's racquet face is closed for almost the entirety of the take-back and swing through. It doens't really open up much until he's just about to hit the ball. Keeping that racquet face as closed as possible for as long as possible sets up that dual-action motion of both moving forward through the ball, and moving up against the ball that sends the ball forward with spin.

All of this of course i happening in less than a second, so it's a lot of stuff happening in a very short amount of time. If you overthink this whole process, you'll only confuse yourself and hit the ball into the net.

it has to be fluid, smooth and without thought. I recommend practicing swinging the racquet by itself, just take some "shadow swings" so you can get used to the motion. You might even try to record yourself and play it back in slo-mo.

Then when you're on the court, you should already be comfortable with the motion.

[LeeD]

Wow, here you gotta PLAY tennis to understand.

[10isfreak]

Originally Posted by jakeytennis

about the closed face generating more topspin

/o <---- imagine this as a racket with a closed face hitting a ball

and imagine this ---> lo as a flat face hitting a ball

how exactly does /o brushing up create more topspin than
lo brushing up?

Part of your shot directs the ball, while an other fraction directs the edge of the ball. As a matter of fact, you will produce spin by brushing up the back of the ball... the problem is that you will also cause the ball to lift: it will travel higher.

Your swing path prior ball contact mainly influences the ball's launching angle whereas the angle of the string bed mostly impacts the spin/pace ratio. As a fact, most professional forehands (prior contact) are swung nearly horizontally: between 10 and 20 degrees of slope from the horizontal axis, with notable exceptions such as Nadal who frequently reverts to more vertical swing, getting sometimes close to 30 degrees.

Using basic trigonometry, you can understand how much the racket goes up for each forward inch and that gives you an idea of how the linear and vertical parts of the vector share the total energy that is transferred to the ball.

A very obvious thing is that, until you reach 45 degrees, you get more forward action than upward action... so, more of your kinetic energy is directed forward. It could explain why it's better to use the tilt of the racket to accelerate the edge of the ball: with most of your energy being directed forward, you also get more spin by attacking the ball forward.

The tilt basically allow you to hit the upper edge of the ball, which creates spin. By swinging more vertically, you're essentially also pushing the ball upward. Although IT DOES affect spin production, it affects it marginally.

[jakeytennis]

thanks for clearing this up. i have no issue with my topspin shots. i was just curious