Econogut 101: How and What?

[alidisperanza]

So I've continually seen posters lamenting about economy level natural gut snapping while stringing or prematurely breaking in the frame. I figured I'd post some input on the string and a type of "how-to"

First I'm going to discuss the different types of econogut I've come across, then I'm going to share 2 examples of string jobs I've completed with pictures.

Below are the different types of gut I've had experience working with in order of price:

Babolat VS, VS Team 17
Babolat BT7
Prince Natural gut
Babolat Tonic+
Babolat Tonic Longevity
Pacific Classic
Titan Natural gut
Gaucho Natural gut
Gaucho Spider silk
Mamba Premium Natural Gut

Obviously there's a huge discrepancy between the high end of the list and the low end. Here's what you'll see as you go down the list.

1. Change in consistency of gauge
2. Chemical coating
3. Resistance to change in weather
4. Fraying due to coating
5.Tension range

The higher class guts will typically be one continuous piece while the econoguts often come in two. Likewise, Babolat is known for having impeccable gauge while econoguts can vary 1-even 2 gauges at different points in the string. Often times, this is the greatest cause for lament. Many times, the coating can be the source of the problem while other times it's the actual string. Whether for this reason or for others, econoguts should not be strung over ~56 lbs. If you need to string at 60#, you're taking a chance. Note, this is entirely possible as I've strung plenty of frames at 58-60lbs with these strings but I definitely don't suggest it.

When working with these econoguts, it is pivotal to TAKE YOUR TIME. What majority of stringers don't realize is that these strings are not built with the same quality that Babolat, or other high brand names are and suffer from negligence. Another thing that most people don't realize is that everyone is falliable-- I took a set of Gaucho spider silk (a fairly sturdy econogut) to a very good and reputable stringer-friend of mine. This gentleman does 40+ frames a week and has strung for many of the top pros at world tournaments. There is no doubt as to his stringing "prowess." Even so, he did a terrible job stringing my frame simply because he treated the string as if it were VS. His determination was that the string was of poor quality and didn't believe that it could be strung "properly." Needless to say, he was surprised when I produced a frame using the other half of the set with more favorable results. In no way am I denouncing his ability; if anything, he's been a bit of a mentor. I'm simply expressing that it's a different ball game.

On to the actual stringing. The first example I'll use is Gut mains and Polyester crosses. The strings that I chose to use are Mamba Premium gut 16g and Discho Iontec Black 1.25 crosses.

What the strings actually look like:


Stringing gut mains is pretty straight forward. There aren't really any major hitches other than taking your time and making sure the string doesn't get tangled and kinked. I generally make it a point not to preweave when using econoguts just because I don't like to put the extra tension on the string. I like to let it fall and turn and twist as it pleases. Go one by one and take your time. When pulling tension, make sure that you have your setting to the slowest available or that you crank/ drop weight slowly. The trick is to let the string stretch and relax on its own.



There are a few options for dealing with poorly coated or dry gut as well. The first common practice is to wax your mains. Not only will this help mitigate the friction between the crosses when you install them but it will also help "seal" the gut a bit. I use a non-scented, non-colored house candle to do this. See the picture below.

The other option, one which I have not tried, is to coat the mains with something else. I've heard different options were to use baby oil or even some sort of lubricant spray (silicone comes to mind) to help seal the gut and keep it flexible.

[alidisperanza]

Econogut continued-- only 4 pictures per page.

The only real issue I had with the Mamba Premium gut that I strung was that the knots were very dry and wouldn't cinch properly. I intentionally used two different knots to show the difference when concerning a gut like this. as you can see, the double half hitch is a bit bulky and "sloppy" while the parnell knot cinches up neatly against the grommet. I feel like the latter is more appropriate for this type of string since you don't have to ratchet it down to get it tight. The knot will tighten up on its own without the extra effort and risk of snapping.

Double Half Hitch:


Parnell Knot:



When you do string the crosses, again, take your time and don't rip the cross through the mains. Weave one ahead and make sure to use a high-fanning-weave. This will help reduce the friction on your mains and ensure that the crosses are set in a proper fashion. If at all possible, I try to tie off on a cross string at the side of the frame. Fortunately Yonex has a grommet prepared just for that.


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Ahh, the long awaited second part of this thread: stringing the crosses

1.The way I like to start working with any gut product is to cut the bindings and let it hang naturally to elongate. I usually do this by draping it over one of my fan blades and letting it sit. Any other method works but this one works with gravity and is rather gentle

2. I skipped over stringing mains-- It's not as relevant. Waxing the mains is an option as was shown above. Body safe oils work as well. I've heard Silicon spray is a third option but I tend to keep to the natural products.

3. I STRONGLY advise using a starting clamp and tying off with a parnell knot here. The stress of making a barrel knot is terrible for cheap gut. Apply lotion/ oil generously for that part. In this instance I chose to use a barrel knot because I didn't have a clamp on hand. It worked but it wasn't pretty

4. Once you have your first cross set, begin the process of "half-weaving." Lace the string through the grommet and weave ~4ish mains diagonally towards the throat of the racquet. Now STOP! Check to see if the string has twisted, kinked, balled up, etc. Gently pull the half-cross through until you leave a generous loop for tensioning (this comes into play because you always weave 1 ahead).

[alidisperanza]

5. Once the slack has been pulled through and you've left yourself a generous loop [I say generous because you don't want to get caught kinking/crimping the string in your tension head if there isn't enough slack] weave the remaining mains in a U shape. Fan, FAN, FAN! your crosses.

Sorry, this one came blurry


6. Continue 1-5 for the rest of the frame. As you progress, the strings will get twisted and turned and all sorts of chaos-- take your time and deal with each in turn. You'll also notice that it will get more and more difficult to pull the mains. Re-wax/oil your mains and be gentle with the string. Believe it or not, it's better to keep a little extra slack instead of cutting off the excess when working with Gut. First, it lets you get the string moving within the weave and second, you never know when you might kink a little piece and have to cut it off.

7. Finish with a double half hitch or Parnell knot.

Voila!

[alidisperanza]

One last page reserved

[TenFanLA]

Terrific stuff, Alid. Thanks for educating ignorant stringers like me. I'm testing the uber expensive VS Team/0S hybrid (since I already have these strings in stock) to see if gut/poly will give me excellent performance with more comfort than full poly. If this combo works I want to find a more affordable setup. At further risk of exposing my ignorance: (1)How do the econo guts such as Mamba Premium Natural Gut(MPNG) compare to VS Team in terms of playability? (2)How is MPNG/ItB hybrid? Is ItB a good poly for cross? (3)I only know how to do double half hitch. How you do the Parnell knot? (4)Instead of wax or baby lotion, can you use hand lotion like Lubriderm instead?

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

So... should we flood this thread with nonsense until we get to another page?

You hit it spot on. With econogut, you have to take your time. Also, I want to add that one shouldn't use a death-grip clamp. You don't want to overly pinch the gut and weaken it.

Lastly, on the knots, OP is also spot on. I've gotten used to using the "Double half hitch", and with Mamba premium gut, it's really dry. My solution is to lotion up the remaining string so the strings can slide over one another, and do my knot.

Also, I want to say something about Gaucho Spider Silk. If the string itself doesn't have defects, it's damn near indestructible.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by TenFanLA

Terrific stuff, Alid. Thanks for educating ignorant stringers like me. I'm testing the uber expensive VS Team/0S hybrid (since I already have these strings in stock) to see if gut/poly will give me excellent performance with more comfort than full poly. If this combo works I want to find a more affordable setup. At further risk of exposing my ignorance: (1)How do the econo guts such as Mamba Premium Natural Gut(MPNG) compare to VS Team in terms of playability? (2)How is MPNG/ItB hybrid? Is ItB a good poly for cross? (3)I only know how to do double half hitch. How you do the Parnell knot? (4)Instead of wax or baby lotion, can you use hand lotion like Lubriderm instead?

I'm going to assume Mamba Iontec (salmon) plays the same as Mamba Iontec (black).

My MPNG/ItS plays really well. I think Iontec compliment gut really well because it's really soft (I like soft stuff). As a cross, I think Iontec provides a soft stringbed, slightly crisper than a gut/Polystar Energy stringbed.

[Up&comer]

Awesome job Ali.

[xiaobo]

It is much better not to string econogut with full stringbed. Otherwise, its cross strings might be damaged due to high friction. I had no problem to string hybrid with Mamba guts and ItS, but full stringbed of Mamba supra gut was snapped due to damage of cross strings caused by high friction.

Xiaobo.

[Ramon]

Thanks for the post! I found it very interesting. Maybe it belongs under Stringing Techniques?

I think I did a subpar job my first time around with the Mamba Premium/Iontec combo, mostly because of the gut kinking, but I did much better the second time.

I was a bit surprised at your choice of the Parnell knot for the gut. I use the Parnell knot exclusively for poly because the double half hitch doesn't cinch up properly with poly, and it's so secure with poly that I can even use it as a starting knot. However, I found the double half hitch to be more secure for multifilament mains because the Parnell knots would slip. I use the JET pattern for my mains, which puts added stress on the knots so I need secure knots for my mains, and the double half hitch proved to be more secure for my multifilaments. So when I strung up the gut mains, I used the double half hitch. I also find the double half hitch makes it easier to take up slack in the string, and since I don't have to put my pliers on the loop to tighten it, it's not the end of the world if the string breaks on my pliers.

[pvaudio]

Questo thread è fantastico!

[pvaudio]

Would just also like to add: you can get away with even smaller knots than the Parnell. I use the Wilson knot exclusively, and with Mamba Supra, tighten only by hand. It cinches itself up just perfectly, and hasn't moved a bit from being freshly strung as below:

[TenFanLA]

PV, is that Supra Gut/Iontec or Iontec/Supra Gut? How do you like that setup compared to other hybrids?

[wrxtotoro]

I use the Parnell Knot when I tie the gut on the gut mains. Hand-tie the knot only. Don't even use the starting clamp to pull. However when I tie the poly cross on the gut main (for some rackets you just have to...), I usually use the Wilson Pro knot as I think it will put less stress or friction on the gut when you pull it. And then a drop of clear nail polish on all knots.

Instead of wax, I usually use lip balm to kinda lubricate the gut before I sting the cross. Simply less messy with white stuff all over the place.

Then I leave the racket sit over night to let the strings set in place. On the next day, spray some heavy silicon on it for extra lubrication and protection. It's like $3 for a can from Walmart.

[fortun8son]

Great job. I'm glad you made good on your promise.
I use the Wilson Pro knot myself.
The Parnell is nice but my brain would've exploded if I had tried to keep the two straight. So I chose one.
I have yet to find a client willing to spend the $$ even on Mamba Gut!
So I bought a racquet.
I may even learn how to play!
It's a Prince O3 Red.
We shall see how the Supra strings up on an O-Port.

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by TenFanLA

PV, is that Supra Gut/Iontec or Iontec/Supra Gut? How do you like that setup compared to other hybrids?

That's Supra/Iontec. I think it's fantastic. More muted than Performaxx/Iontec, but less pingy as well. It strikes the balance between the control of Scorpion crosses and the spin of CoFocus crosses. Tension stability is also right in between.

[MambaT]

subbed

10char

[arche3]

that mamba gut looks all rough and dried looking. wonder if its cheap india made gut like the **** stuff.

[alidisperanza]

Originally Posted by TenFanLA

(1)How do the econo guts such as Mamba Premium Natural Gut(MPNG) compare to VS Team in terms of playability? (2)How is MPNG/ItB hybrid? Is ItB a good poly for cross? (3)I only know how to do double half hitch. How you do the Parnell knot? (4)Instead of wax or baby lotion, can you use hand lotion like Lubriderm instead?

1. I just hit my first 10 balls with it last night. I'll let you know the more I play and will be doing a piece on it in my usual playtest thread

2. Runs along the same line as 1.

3. There's a really good youtube video that I learned from with a demonstration as well. The basics are you go over the anchor string and through the loop you made like you normally would then you go over the main again and through the 1st loop you previously made. It will look a little bit bulky at first but you'll get it.

4. I don't see why not. I've only ever experimented with simple wax because I don't know too much about the coating of the gut. I'm going to be playing around with some silicone spray in the future.

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

You hit it spot on. With econogut, you have to take your time. Also, I want to add that one shouldn't use a death-grip clamp. You don't want to overly pinch the gut and weaken it.

Also, I want to say something about Gaucho Spider Silk. If the string itself doesn't have defects, it's damn near indestructible.

Yup, I forgot to mention that in the op. Thanks, I'll add it now

It's definitely more durable than the natural stuff they make but it plays a bit differently as well. There's a strand of what looks like multi in the middle of it.

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

I'm going to assume Mamba Iontec (salmon) plays the same as Mamba Iontec (black).

My MPNG/ItS plays really well. I think Iontec compliment gut really well because it's really soft (I like soft stuff). As a cross, I think Iontec provides a soft stringbed, slightly crisper than a gut/Polystar Energy stringbed.

Not quite. Salmon is a bit more responsive. I'm not too sure whether it's the racquet or not but I remember salmon playing very nicely off the bat. I'm having a bit of trouble with ItB; it's not playing how I expect it when fresh. I seem to like it much better once settled.

Originally Posted by Ramon

Thanks for the post! I found it very interesting. Maybe it belongs under Stringing Techniques?


I think I did a subpar job my first time around with the Mamba Premium/Iontec combo, mostly because of the gut kinking, but I did much better the second time.

I was a bit surprised at your choice of the Parnell knot for the gut. I use the Parnell knot exclusively for poly because the double half hitch doesn't cinch up properly with poly, and it's so secure with poly that I can even use it as a starting knot. However, I found the double half hitch to be more secure for multifilament mains because the Parnell knots would slip. I use the JET pattern for my mains, which puts added stress on the knots so I need secure knots for my mains, and the double half hitch proved to be more secure for my multifilaments. So when I strung up the gut mains, I used the double half hitch. I also find the double half hitch makes it easier to take up slack in the string, and since I don't have to put my pliers on the loop to tighten it, it's not the end of the world if the string breaks on my pliers.

I thought about it too but I wanted to talk about the actual string too so I guess it can be posted in either.

Thanks for reminding me, Kinking is a no-no with just about any gut. It compounds with econogut because of the coating. Babolat guts can kink and still remain a solid piece. Most econoguts actually separate the fibers when kinked

Hmm. I guess it's just difference in experience. The double half hitch lets you ratchet down on the string quite a bit if you so choose-- the first loop will help you take up the slack as you mentioned. Depending on the string, the second loop may bulge out. I use the "Jet" method too but I haven't found any real issues with it. With everything except for natural gut, I usually tighten my knots just a hair with my crank-- I mean barely enough for it to cinch up and I haven't really seen any slipping.

Originally Posted by wrxtotoro

I use the Parnell Knot when I tie the gut on the gut mains. Hand-tie the knot only. Don't even use the starting clamp to pull. However when I tie the poly cross on the gut main (for some rackets you just have to...), I usually use the Wilson Pro knot as I think it will put less stress or friction on the gut when you pull it. And then a drop of clear nail polish on all knots.

Instead of wax, I usually use lip balm to kinda lubricate the gut before I sting the cross. Simply less messy with white stuff all over the place.

Then I leave the racket sit over night to let the strings set in place. On the next day, spray some heavy silicon on it for extra lubrication and protection. It's like $3 for a can from Walmart.

I'm not too familiar with the Wilson Pro knot but I'd be interested in learning it if you could shoot me a link via e-mail.

Yeah, wax can get a little bit messy. I usually just stick a piece of paper underneath to catch the extra. I can see lip balm working well too-- I mean, it's designed to hydrate

Originally Posted by arche3

that mamba gut looks all rough and dried looking. wonder if its cheap india made gut like the **** stuff.

The Premium gut I tried from mamba is drier than the better brands that I have worked with but I don't think it's necessarily a "detriment." Yes, it's dry but it's also 15.00/set-- this is an "econogut" thread, afterall.

For a string breaker, the cheap indian made stuff works wonders

[tennisinoc]

Ali, I think your recommendations and tips for stringing up an ECONO gut are on point. Taking your TIME and CARE are the main factors to help successfully make it through the stringing process.

The main factor that I have concluded with using ECONO guts is not in the stringing process itself, but in the string itself. After all, I am assuming that these strings are the defective strings that didn't make it through the quality control section of the string manufacturers. There are lots of defects and imperfections that were not worthy of the instruments/rackets that they were initially intended for.
"The trash of the GUT world" per se.
And because they are the "trash"of the factory, the concluding steps of the processing isn't fully completed to the final product. Therefore, inconsistencies in the gauge, coating, and defects are common with these econo guts.
Check out this video: at the 3:30min mark is what I am referring to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCHkN...eature=related

And like many other industries, they just resell/recycle them to other companies to package and sell themselves with their own private label.

Because of this, my main problems has always occurred when applying tension to the string and not the stringing process itself. Because there are already flaws and defects in the ECONO string, integrity is already compromised and the string just doesn't hold the tension and snaps. I have experience watching the string as it stretches and snap in the place where I think the string has a defect/weakness even as I try with all my might to be slow and careful. And there are times where they have made it through the stringing process, applied a lotion, wax or oil coating and the next day find my strings snapped in the bag overnight. (This is not a fun feeling after spending all that time and care to string it up)

My conclusion after trying these econo guts is:
They are like those "Grab Bags" you buy where you have no idea if you get something good or bad in them, but you take your risk in hoping maybe there is something good in them.
I sometimes find a full set that I can work with, sometimes I only get 1/2 set I can work with, and sometimes I get nothing I can work with.
So at the end, my cost that I am trying to justify by going the ECONO gut way, is no longer ECONO because if it costs me buying 2 sets just to find I only have 1 set that is decent, I would will be better off just
using a higher name brand quality Gut that has a more true Gauge and quality. Lesson learned but it was fun.