Bread and butter serve

[andfor]

Kick out wide against a righty. If he's been running around it, from the same toss, kick down the middle.

[TennisCJC]

On Add side, most dependable 2nd serve is kick out wide. I would go with that unless opponents weapon is wide, then I would try kick down the middle.

[jmnk]

it seems some of you guys should try for the tour. the options you have on second serve while facing a break point, the variety of direction and pace... at least Cindyspinx is honest..

oh, and this:

Originally Posted by Buford T Justice

[...]there is one guy [...] he has seen my ball literally thousands of times. So, there is no fooling him....he knows whats coming.

is probably too much information....

[slowfox]

Mild kick to the body. I'm trying to change the mild part to massive...

[S&V Specialist]

Flat serve down the T. Stuns them mentally and allows for much easier deuce points. If for some reason my flat serve isn't seeming too reliable then I go with a kick serve to their backhand.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by S&V Specialist

Flat serve down the T. Stuns them mentally and allows for much easier deuce points. If for some reason my flat serve isn't seeming too reliable then I go with a kick serve to their backhand.

Do you normally hit flats off one side more so than the other, or do you do it pretty much 50/50?

-Fuji

[S&V Specialist]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Do you normally hit flats off one side more so than the other, or do you do it pretty much 50/50?

-Fuji

Pretty much 50/50.

[fleabitten]

ON most opponents, a kicker to the backhand. If I am extra tight, I'll put it right in the middle of the box with very big kick.

[OrangePower]

Love how everyone here has reliable big kicker 2nd serves.

I must be playing with the wrong crowd of 4.5s. Of about 30 people in my regular circle, probably only 2 or 3 have a 2nd serve that consistently kicks above shoulder height.

Wish I had that serve

[JRstriker12]

Kicker to the backhand or body.

[JRstriker12]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Love how everyone here has reliable big kicker 2nd serves.

I must be playing with the wrong crowd of 4.5s. Of about 30 people in my regular circle, probably only 2 or 3 have a 2nd serve that consistently kicks above shoulder height.

Wish I had that serve

It may not kick above the shoulder every time, but at least I know the spin will bring it in. Much more reliable than my flat serve.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by JRstriker12

It may not kick above the shoulder every time, but at least I know the spin will bring it in. Much more reliable than my flat serve.

Guess it's a matter of definition then.
When I think "kicker", I think "shoots up high off the court".
Otherwise, it's just a serve with some top on it.
Agree that 2nd serves should always have some top or top/slice - pretty much the norm at 3.5 or so and above.
But top is not the same as kick, at least for me.

[Power Player]

Lately is has been a kicker that has a pretty good high bounce.

Can't believe I am saying that as my kicker was hot garbage for years.

[dlam]

ty , I find the kicker out wide has been my high percentage serve to get in on the ad side.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Guess it's a matter of definition then.
When I think "kicker", I think "shoots up high off the court".
Otherwise, it's just a serve with some top on it.
Agree that 2nd serves should always have some top or top/slice - pretty much the norm at 3.5 or so and above.
But top is not the same as kick, at least for me.

Normally kickers are around 6 foot and higher right? So if your strike angle so high enough off the ground, even with a little bit of spin it should jump to at least around 6 foot. It's just getting enough RHS to get that spin.

-Fuji

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by Fuji

Normally kickers are around 6 foot and higher right?

Yes, I'd go with that...

Originally Posted by Fuji

So if your strike angle so high enough off the ground, even with a little bit of spin it should jump to at least around 6 foot. It's just getting enough RHS to get that spin.

-Fuji

Yes and no; even though your strike height is maybe 8-9 ft high, the ball loses speed in flight and more energy/speed on the bounce. So absent any spin, it will only bounce say 4 or 4.5 ft high (guestimate), depending on how hard you can hit it (e.g. a flat serve at 90mph). So you need to generate maybe 2 ft more with spin, and that's assuming a 90mph 2nd, which most rec players are not going to be hitting.

Bottom line is I don't come across many players at 4.5 level and below who can get a 6 ft or higher bounce period on 2nd serve, let alone have it be a consistent serve that they can hit at will under pressure.

Like I said, maybe it's just that I'm playing with the wrong crowd.

[Power Player]

Nah..mine is around 5.5 feet now which is enough to stay out of most players zones, but not enough to be a weapon yet.

I believe I can get mine to bounce higher. I already got it to twist, which is a rather rewarding way to win a point.

Baby steps.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by Power Player

Nah..mine is around 5.5 feet now which is enough to stay out of most players zones, but not enough to be a weapon yet.

I believe I can get mine to bounce higher. I already got it to twist, which is a rather rewarding way to win a point.

Baby steps.

Me and you both, brother.

We seem to be the minority here though. Most everyone else puts us to shame.

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Yes, I'd go with that...



Yes and no; even though your strike height is maybe 8-9 ft high, the ball loses speed in flight and more energy/speed on the bounce. So absent any spin, it will only bounce say 4 or 4.5 ft high (guestimate), depending on how hard you can hit it (e.g. a flat serve at 90mph). So you need to generate maybe 2 ft more with spin, and that's assuming a 90mph 2nd, which most rec players are not going to be hitting.

Bottom line is I don't come across many players at 4.5 level and below who can get a 6 ft or higher bounce period on 2nd serve, let alone have it be a consistent serve that they can hit at will under pressure.

Like I said, maybe it's just that I'm playing with the wrong crowd.

Haha, I'm sure it has nothing to do with your crowd. 4.5 is still just rec tennis after all. It all comes down to practising your second serve, I pretty much solely practice my kicks and twist these days, so it's what gets better, right? I definitely want to get some serve videos up soon!

I don't think speed really is a factor though, it's just how much forward motion you are putting into your kick, vs how much spin you are putting on. To get a really high kick, it's hitting more up into the ball, rather then forward into the ball. Obviously if you are doing a "power" kick and hitting a ton through the ball, the bounce won't be as hight, but it will be a heavier serve that can be used in really any situation, which is what I assume Powerplayer and yourself are doing. Great serve to use, but if you are just looking to maximize bounce, it's not ideal.

-Fuji

[LeeD]

I used to play with a couple of guys who regularly twisted their second serves well over my head. I'm 5'11" and it was less than 3 years ago.
Of course, they were former 5.5's, but the "then" rating might be top of the heap 4.5's.
Either way, they're too good for me to practice with nowadaze..