Weird stringer

[Lakers4Life]

Originally Posted by zapvor

good points. thank you for your input.

no i work at a HUGE 15 court facility with a pro shop attached.

Sounds like another place I know. BTW what machine do you use at the pro shop?

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by Lakers4Life

Sounds like another place I know. BTW what machine do you use at the pro shop?

ok serious now. what place are you talking about??

[zapvor]

so this is what i bought. first day using it its been awesome. the previous ones weighed like 6lbs and were just massive

[Andyroo10567]

Star 5 ^^^

[zapvor]

we have a winner! beast machine i want one so bad

[zapvor]

broken into 2 parts: BOLD is my reply. original font is DD

Ok first off dd I truly appreciate you taking the time and thought to write this out. In that same spirit, please allow me to reply to you in very specific terms as well.
QUOTE=diredesire;7228275]



Alright, with the above information, I think the problem is a little clearer.

You mentioned the place is 'friendly.' From what it sounds like, this ACTUALLY indicates that the place is 'informal' if not 'unprofessional.' This isn't to say that it's a bad shop, just that it doesn't take the approach that say... Priority One does. There's a level of professionalism that comes with high performance customization and stringing, and this pro shop/stringing room/whatever has shown that this isn't really what it's after. Just understand that this is... OK. It's not the end of the world. If you're on the bottom of the totem pole, in reality there's very little you can do about this as it is. HOWEVER, if you want to pursue this, you need to propose changes, just know that people are VERY resistant to change, especially when there's any level of risk involved. It's easy to modify/change/improve on the low hanging fruit, but suggesting that an entire tier of service that you do not already offer be added to the repertoire is probably not going to go over well -- especially when there's an initial cost.

The shop is definitely informal. The interesting thing is, the teaching side of things are very organized and strict, etc. but the shop is more of the side project, if you will. Definitely not RPNY. So I think thats part of the 'history'; the shop has always been this way, and so its just continuing the same way. Which you are right is fine. Its just that seeing these rackets, and getting to know these members I feel so bad about not giving them type of service they deserve you know? Its one thing if I just learned how to string and worked for sports authority and know nothing about tennis, but I care about the sport, the people, and my job seriously. Why not do the job I know I can? Herein lies the problem-and you are right again-the place is probably very resistant to change. Esp since things are 'fine' as they are now. And also, the cost vs revenue is not in my favor.

Before I get to a strategy to implement policy, I'll respond to a few other points in your post(s):

Doing your own thing: While this is great, and you SHOULD be taking the initiative to improve your work, offer flexible services, and do your best not to rely on others, you need to be careful to not create waves. If you've got a precedent/tone set in your shop, and you are constantly trying to disrupt it, you're going to get smothered before you have a chance to get anything going. I'm one of those young guys that like to improve processes, but I know better than to jump in without REALLY understanding how/what/why things are the way things are. There may be good reasons (or not so good) that things are terrible. Take some time and ask questions and understand things better. Start conversations with the other stringer and talk about his tournament experience. Talk about how long he's been stringing (just as a conversation starter). Ask if he's got any bigger aspirations and if he's ever thought about turning the operation into something bigger/more serious. Listen to what he has to say -- even though he's dismissing you, it doesn't mean you should do the same.

Yea this was my initial question really. How do I go about suggesting changes and improving things without being too disruptive. To be honest, management has been VERY nice to me, only the stringer is being weird. They have listened to my ideas so far and are open to more discussion. Get to this more later. But yes as of now I am still getting to know how everything is, etc. the fact is, the place is truly wonderful. The entire staff has been very nice to me, from the coaches to mangement. Again, only exception is stringer.

So re the stringer: we dont see each other. He comes in the morning, I take the afternoon shift. I am pretty sure at this point he actually avoids me, because he makes sure to find out what time I am coming in, and leaves well in advance. And talking to the other staff, I discover that he doesnt play tennis, etc. its just a job to him. You mention bigger aspirations. Here is a kicker for you guys. He owns his own tennis shop at home! He has now brought to my attention that I should buy my own machine so 'we can make tons of money'. At first I was kind of stunned at this statement, and at this point I really dont want to be part of his 'team' 'making money'. I prefer to work for the facility, for the person that hired me, and not this fellow stringer who's got other agendas. So yes, he definitely has bigger aspirations, and he tried involving me. But now that I have 'disrespected' him as he says, hes stopped that. And yes, he dismisses me. I feel as though he thinks I am a threat to him....

[zapvor]

As far as obligations to do a good job for good players -- while you already acknowledge that lower level players are still important, from a professionalism standpoint, you need to give an equal amount of care to each racquet. If you got Federer's racquet in the shop, you shouldn't HAVE to do anything different just because it's Fed. Little Joe walking into the shop should expect the same level of service if they're paying the same amount. It's a slippery slope when you start making qualifications on a player. On the extreme end of the spectrum you get attitudes like the one(s) that are dictating the direction of your shop, after all...

you are absolutely right. I was just making a point so exagerrated a little.

Disconnect with management:
With all the new information, I have to caution you to talk to the management directly until you have a more complete offering to give them. There are many options for you from what it sounds like. Just be aware that none of those options might actually pan out.

Approach to create a store policy:
The 'other' stringer "doesn't do" bumperguards and tubing. It sounds like it's not an official service that your shop offers. Is he wrong? NO. This is the entire reason you need a policy. People operating on their own volition are just going to end up causing friction. He says he doesn't do it, you say you do, he's going to get ****ed if people start asking for you specifically. While it's great people want you to do work for them, you don't need to go out of your way to **** someone off. If you are going to provide unofficial services, you need to let your customers know that the service isn't standard policy. He's not actually being 'plain ridiculous' if you think about it from the big picture. His 'job description' in his mind does not include these value-add services, and that's actually OK. It sucks from our perspective, but don't let it ruffle your feathers.

So regarding policy, this is something I will look into. You are right on all your points. But look at it my way. Hes going out of his way to tell people we dont provide such services when they are needed, and tries to undermine me by going to management about it and telling me no. hes not in charge of me. My boss is. I think its downright....'wrong' of someone to do that. How would you like it if I went to your boss and said “let's tell DD he cant do X because I dont want to have to do the same work he is”??? honestly I am not sure if hes plain lazy or what....and yes its not his job description, but again: He just wants money,on the other hand I care about giving the best to my customer.

Offerings: If your facility is already the number one destination for talented juniors in the area, you can use this as an obvious selling point. "We already offer the best junior program within a X mile radius, so our market is pretty secure. We can increase revenue with a minimal initial investment." Of course, a 'real' approach would include market surveys -- even an informal survey to customers with whether or not they'd be interested in service XYZ would give you hard data to provide to management IF you get that far.

Bottom line: don't even try to talk to management without a business plan. It's wonderful if management is willing to talk with you as it is. Suggesting major changes to their business plan without a FULL understanding of risks/rewards/how much work is involved is going to be like talking to a tree stump. Sure, they may listen to your suggestions with a smile on your face, but they're not going to take it seriously.

Agree. I will slowly build up a proposal and then present it. But like you say, time. I will learn more and then make the right moves at the right time. Thank you. Now to be certain: management has been SUPERB. I honestly can say I am happy working for them. They are good people, with good intentions and everything. They are just occupied with bigger things, so to speak then a $30 stringjob.

String selection/sponsors: I doubt your string selection has anything to do with sponsors. It is likely as simple as: We will offer what is popular because we know we won't have idle product sitting on the shelf. Every unsold set of string is overhead and it is truly and literally negative profit and/or debt from a management standpoint. If you have to spend $2000 up front to fully stock your pro-shop, but only the 4 popular strings that you've always had are selling, EVERYTHING on that shelf is a loss from a records-keeping standpoint. Be aware of this. If you are going to expand your selection(s), you need to do it slowly unless you're getting a blind budget investment.

True to a degree. I wont go into this more as its not big on my agenda right now.
Build up grip: It's not an official service -- make it one or buy your own tools.
Same here.
Tools/being the best you can be: Same as above -- If you want to provide that service, you need to provide it yourself. You need to also clear it, as this can actually turn into a liability from a management standpoint. What if you build a grip up and you do it wrong? What if the build up sleeve was provided by the customer? Are you going to return their money out of pocket? There's risk involved with offering unsupported services. Again, implement policy.

Yea bought my own tools. More on the way. And I didnt even get paid yet

Tone and communications: 'So yea.' Stop that. If this is the way you're talking with other people, especially in real life, you need to start paying attention to how you come across. Seriously. If you're adding 'so yeah' to your discussions with people who are 'higher up' than you, basically you're saying "yeah I don't have a point." If you want to be taken seriously, take yourself seriously. This is a soft skill, and it will likely be ignored, but doing simple things like this will make peoples' perception of you turn more serious. Even if everyone your age is speaking informally, this will only set you apart more in a subconscious way.

Haha sorry. Here on Talk Tennis its pretty much comedy for me. You know this betetr than us as you see the crazy posts everywhere. And I contriibute to it myself, no doub.t but in real life I am pretty professional. Or I try to be anyways. I definitely dont say 'so yea' and that kind of thing. But yes you are right. Thanks for reminding me.

Junior abuse -- looks like there's not much left to say there.

Smartazz guy - If you're 'just a kid,' you need to choose your words wisely. If/when you have a store policy to fall back on, all you need to say is: "I'm willing to try stringing this frame, but I need you to be aware of the store policy. Since this is a liability, we do not guarantee work on any frames with exposed graphite or graphite damage." There's not much to argue there, and with some solid ground to stand on, there's not much risk of being called a 'smartazz.'

this was one incident. Over and done.

[zapvor]

sorry 3 parts TT wont let me post more than 10k word posts

Shop dynamics: It's fine if you're nice/friendly/cordial but the age discrimination issue still stands. Quite frankly, there isn't much you can do about it, and I'm not sure there's anything you SHOULD do about it. People earn their stripes and they earn the recognition and respect that they get. It sounds like you just need to put in your time and roll with the punches. It's one of those lessons that you carry forward with you. The best thing you can do in life is not turn into that guy. Understand that every single individual has something to offer, and there may indeed be something you can learn even from the dismissive stringer. If he doesn't want to treat you as an equal, that's his loss and his problem, but DO NOT let it stress your relationship. Don't undermine his authority either, that's an amateur mistake. If you have good ideas, discuss them with him, but instead of telling him "I'm going to do this - deal with it," ask him if he's got any suggestions and let him psychologically 'take ownership' of YOUR idea, and if he wants to claim credit, that's fine. Get your foot in the door to operate as equals and be humble. Who knows, eventually he might be coming to you for ideas once he sees positive feedback. Lowest guy on the totem pole gets the shaft and that's just life. He probably DOES have an ego issue, but that's not your problem.

I honestly think the age discrimnation is strictly from the stringer only. The more I think about it the more I think he feels threatened by me. He realizes I am actually doing a good job,etc. Its funny. Let me tell you some things thats happened:

1-tuesday night I stay until 11pm to catch up on rackets. I leave 2 rackets in que, with natural gut. Wednes we were both out. Come today, thursday, the guy wants his 2 rackets but they are not done. Now remember he comes in the morning, I come in afternoon. So when he came this morning, those 2 shouldve been first to do. But instead he skips them and leaves them for me in the afternoon.

Flash back-my first week on the job he leaves me 2 rackets with natrual gut. He calls me on phone and says to me “i just want to see if you know how to string gut”. so....i wonder if he's scared to string gut??

2-members are already requesting me to string their racket. One even said the other stringer messed up his reel. And hes been there about 10months longer than me. I am barely on my first month here.

His actions are not stressing me. Its just that hes going to management about it, and they in turn veto my idea thanks to him. But yet at the same time when he talks to me on the phone he keeps saying “oh this is between you and me noone else” and he always acts scared when I say stuff like 'let me talk to [boss] about this” I am not sure I need to go on....


and to be sure, i am not trying to undermine him. all i have been saying is 'hey i think this customer needs this done so how can i go about doing it without using my own money" and instead of supporting me hes made sure customers are not getting what they need.

imagine you going to a auto shop with flat tire and the guy says 'oh you dont need a new tire, but lets see why dont you buy a new paintjob'. hes basically picking what he wants to do, and makes sure i dont get to help customers myself as well so he doesnt look bad? its just absurd.

or even worse. say one day you go into teh office and your boss says "oh DD you can NO longer use [essential tool] to do your job because your co worker says its not necessary and hes doesnt want to use that tool so he doesnt have to do the job that the tool relates to"
Not necessarily, hopefully I've done an adequate job of communicating this...[/quote]
__________________




finally, again, thank you DD. your reply is greatly appreciated. i hope to learn and improve as i go on.

[zapvor]

here is whats happening. if it wasnt for the stringer, all the suggestions i made to mangaement would have already come to pass. they are very open and helpful, but every time something comes up they say something like 'oh but the other stringer says its no big deal it's not needed. so yea, the problem lies there.

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by fortun8son

Great posts dd!
As for tools; I highly recommend these:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-5-pc-...2&blockType=G2
I've used these in my shop for years and they work great.
The only others you'd need are a starting clamp, an awl, and a setting off tool.

i was looking at this too!

[zapvor]

oh yea and the fact he bought these huge tools with the company's money, when he knew they were not good. his own set i saw look much like the ones you guys linked. hmm...

so i gave the maintenance guy the big tools today. he was happy

[fortun8son]

Originally Posted by zapvor

i was looking at this too!

The 3 tools that I use of the 5pc set, are the bent nose, the diagonal cutters(only for snipping string ties and knot tails. they mash the tip) and especially the flush cut end nippers.
I use those for cutting out the stringbed (cross and main simultaneously, one intersection at a time) and making the sharp point plastic awl on the string tip.
They just do not get dull and make a great cut.
Safer, too.
My Xurons are notched but these keep going.
My only complaint is sometimes the little springs break.

This is what we get at SA when we order a stringing kit from Tennis Machines (plus a sharp and a blunt awl)

[Lakers4Life]

Originally Posted by zapvor

ok serious now. what place are you talking about??

Whittier Narrows Tennis Center, though I doubt it now that you use a Star 5. They still use a Neos 1000.

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by fortun8son

The 3 tools that I use of the 5pc set, are the bent nose, the diagonal cutters(only for snipping string ties and knot tails. they mash the tip) and especially the flush cut end nippers.
I use those for cutting out the stringbed (cross and main simultaneously, one intersection at a time) and making the sharp point plastic awl on the string tip.
They just do not get dull and make a great cut.
Safer, too.
My Xurons are notched but these keep going.
My only complaint is sometimes the little springs break.

This is what we get at SA when we order a stringing kit from Tennis Machines (plus a sharp and a blunt awl)

wait. you work at SA???

[diredesire]

Originally Posted by zapvor

so this is what i bought. first day using it its been awesome. the previous ones weighed like 6lbs and were just massive

It's funny, because I actually hate those tools. I got the bronze colored set way back when. I think the tools feel cheap, the 'springs' fall out, and the lamination (plating?) peels off with heavy use. This is mostly applicable to the smooth surfaced tools, though. I don't like heavily serrated gripping jaws on my stringing tools -- they're purpose built for other applications and with enough pressure will generally mar string. I prefer the micro pliers from Crescent for stringing purposes. If you see 'em on sale sometime, snap a set up. It's not important for how little pliers are actually used in stringing, though (assuming you don't pull knots with pliers). I almost only use my pliers for guiding string through blocked holes, which I'm pretty sure isn't the way most stringers use their pliers, so definitely take my opinions here with a huge grain of salt

Originally Posted by zapvor

The shop is definitely informal. The interesting thing is, the teaching side of things are very organized and strict, etc. but the shop is more of the side project, if you will. Definitely not RPNY. So I think thats part of the 'history'; the shop has always been this way, and so its just continuing the same way. Which you are right is fine. Its just that seeing these rackets, and getting to know these members I feel so bad about not giving them type of service they deserve you know? Its one thing if I just learned how to string and worked for sports authority and know nothing about tennis, but I care about the sport, the people, and my job seriously. Why not do the job I know I can? Herein lies the problem-and you are right again-the place is probably very resistant to change. Esp since things are 'fine' as they are now. And also, the cost vs revenue is not in my favor.

Cost vs. revenue is really where you're fighting the uphill battle. The simple solution is to not have the goal (currently) of doing anything on the level of an RPNY. You don't need to be shooting for custom grip molding/customizing, etc. Upping the level of professionalism is a "free" investment that will yield many long term benefits for the club. This is especially true if the other matters are handled with a high level of professionalism. From that perspective, it's a simple sell. It sounds like your biggest obstacle is to get everyone on board. Currently the shop appears to be below the priority line where they want to dedicate resources. If you make it easy for them and take initiative and just present them with a modest, but sensible invoice, I wouldn't be too surprised if they take you up on it, provided you've done your research.

Yea this was my initial question really. How do I go about suggesting changes and improving things without being too disruptive. To be honest, management has been VERY nice to me, only the stringer is being weird. They have listened to my ideas so far and are open to more discussion. Get to this more later. But yes as of now I am still getting to know how everything is, etc. the fact is, the place is truly wonderful. The entire staff has been very nice to me, from the coaches to mangement. Again, only exception is stringer.
Then the very simple issue here is getting the stringer on board. If he thinks in terms of money, you need to talk to him in terms of money. Like I said, get him psychologically on board, even if it means you make him a stakeholder.

So re the stringer: we dont see each other. He comes in the morning, I take the afternoon shift. I am pretty sure at this point he actually avoids me, because he makes sure to find out what time I am coming in, and leaves well in advance. And talking to the other staff, I discover that he doesnt play tennis, etc. its just a job to him. You mention bigger aspirations. Here is a kicker for you guys. He owns his own tennis shop at home! He has now brought to my attention that I should buy my own machine so 'we can make tons of money'. At first I was kind of stunned at this statement, and at this point I really dont want to be part of his 'team' 'making money'. I prefer to work for the facility, for the person that hired me, and not this fellow stringer who's got other agendas. So yes, he definitely has bigger aspirations, and he tried involving me. But now that I have 'disrespected' him as he says, hes stopped that. And yes, he dismisses me. I feel as though he thinks I am a threat to him....

If this is the case, there's a conflict of interest. If he has a shop at home, he's at odds with the current shop increasing their level of service. I would also take the "rise above the politics" approach here, you've got a good thing going with a lot of potential, you're right not to want to squander it. It's likely true that you're a 'threat' to him, but don't take it personally. Just brush it off and do your thing -- OR try to understand his motivations better.

So regarding policy, this is something I will look into. You are right on all your points. But look at it my way. Hes going out of his way to tell people we dont provide such services when they are needed, and tries to undermine me by going to management about it and telling me no. hes not in charge of me. My boss is. I think its downright....'wrong' of someone to do that. How would you like it if I went to your boss and said “let's tell DD he cant do X because I dont want to have to do the same work he is”??? honestly I am not sure if hes plain lazy or what....and yes its not his job description, but again: He just wants money,on the other hand I care about giving the best to my customer.

Like I said before, if it's not a shop policy, he's not wrong. It sucks, and it's "cut and dry" from a stringer's standpoint, but it is simple politics. This is a situation where you just need to sit down and talk with him. Bring a game plan, get him on board. Ask him the logical reasoning as to why, maybe he's got some reasons. Billing and liability are the two big ones I see. This applies to all value-add services if they're not officially supported/offered.

Agree. I will slowly build up a proposal and then present it. But like you say, time. I will learn more and then make the right moves at the right time. Thank you. Now to be certain: management has been SUPERB. I honestly can say I am happy working for them. They are good people, with good intentions and everything. They are just occupied with bigger things, so to speak then a $30 stringjob.

Like I said, there's a priority cutoff as to where to dedicate resources. They aren't looking at the problem because there a cost associated even with LOOKING at the problem. Do the leg work for them and present them with what is essentially a bill. If they're as good as you say they are, AND you've done a proper job of justifying the expense, it should be a no brainer unless there's a freeze on investment/"grants".


Yea bought my own tools. More on the way. And I didnt even get paid yet
It's an investment in yourself -- If you make enough to have to file taxes, you can call it an occupational write off... keep your receipts if it brings you tears

[diredesire]

Originally Posted by zapvor

Haha sorry. Here on Talk Tennis its pretty much comedy for me. You know this betetr than us as you see the crazy posts everywhere. And I contriibute to it myself, no doub.t but in real life I am pretty professional. Or I try to be anyways. I definitely dont say 'so yea' and that kind of thing. But yes you are right. Thanks for reminding me.
Understood -- I am just giving you the 'hard knock' advice from experience. If you take anything away from that recommendation, it's to reflect upon yourself regularly and evaluate yourself honestly.

I honestly think the age discrimnation is strictly from the stringer only. The more I think about it the more I think he feels threatened by me. He realizes I am actually doing a good job,etc. Its funny. Let me tell you some things thats happened:

1-tuesday night I stay until 11pm to catch up on rackets. I leave 2 rackets in que, with natural gut. Wednes we were both out. Come today, thursday, the guy wants his 2 rackets but they are not done. Now remember he comes in the morning, I come in afternoon. So when he came this morning, those 2 shouldve been first to do. But instead he skips them and leaves them for me in the afternoon.

Flash back-my first week on the job he leaves me 2 rackets with natrual gut. He calls me on phone and says to me “i just want to see if you know how to string gut”. so....i wonder if he's scared to string gut??

2-members are already requesting me to string their racket. One even said the other stringer messed up his reel. And hes been there about 10months longer than me. I am barely on my first month here.

His actions are not stressing me. Its just that hes going to management about it, and they in turn veto my idea thanks to him. But yet at the same time when he talks to me on the phone he keeps saying “oh this is between you and me noone else” and he always acts scared when I say stuff like 'let me talk to [boss] about this” I am not sure I need to go on....


It still sounds like you're viewing this in a very adversarial tone. I understand if it feels like you're being treated unfairly, but IMO direct communication is the way to go here. If he leaves gut jobs for you, ask him if you should be expecting to do most of the gut jobs. If it's simply a risk/pain in the butt for him to work with gut due to the delicate nature, he might just prefer to let you deal with the liability, especially if you're on the hook for a ruined set. You're the low guy on the totem pole, this is normal It's similar to giving the intern the job that needs to get done but no one wants to do. Don't worry about this one too much.

Ask/tell him quite frankly that you'd like to improve communication between you two, and if there's any issues to please contact you first so you can improve the teamwork aspect. Get him to take ownership of the relationship, ask him to guide you as he's been there longer. Even if there's no technical skills you can learn, he's probably got a FEW protips that he can help you with. Build a relationship here, don't burn bridges. If there's anything that he discusses with you that is NOT shop policy, you have every right to go to management. This, OR you can discuss that you're willing to support it and keep things between you two, but you'd be more comfortable if there was a policy in place so you have something to fall back on if anything goes wrong. This provides safety for everyone, INCLUDING him. You can "back each other up" here. Back to the bumper guard example: He doesn't do replacements, so he tells customers that the shop wont' offer that service. Someone comes to talk to you, and you say "sure!" You undermine his authority here, and it's no surprise that he's giving you a cold shoulder. This is like a cunning kid asking Mom for ice cream for dinner, getting a no, and going straight for the sucker-dad. You need to work together, and if he's still giving you a hard no, find a way to get him on board, even if it's switching the subject to "I think these services would increase our revenue. I remember you telling me you wanted to make a ton of money, and I think this is an easy way for us to do that without having to pay anything out of pocket." It's just people management/strategy. If NOTHING else, and you continue to find this guy adversarial, you can practice your people skills on him

and to be sure, i am not trying to undermine him. all i have been saying is 'hey i think this customer needs this done so how can i go about doing it without using my own money" and instead of supporting me hes made sure customers are not getting what they need.

imagine you going to a auto shop with flat tire and the guy says 'oh you dont need a new tire, but lets see why dont you buy a new paintjob'. hes basically picking what he wants to do, and makes sure i dont get to help customers myself as well so he doesnt look bad? its just absurd.

Actions speak louder than words, see above. Get on a team-perspective first, THEN try to correct things. Like we've already determined, you're not going to do it all in one shot, so be patient and do things one step at a time. Don't build a house of cards all at once, it'll topple.

or even worse. say one day you go into teh office and your boss says "oh DD you can NO longer use [essential tool] to do your job because your co worker says its not necessary and hes doesnt want to use that tool so he doesnt have to do the job that the tool relates to"
here is whats happening. if it wasnt for the stringer, all the suggestions i made to mangaement would have already come to pass. they are very open and helpful, but every time something comes up they say something like 'oh but the other stringer says its no big deal it's not needed. so yea, the problem lies there.

Example? Sounds pretty dramatic. Ask him to talk to you first about it, so you're on the same page. Tell him you're willing to listen and make necessary changes, and would prefer for the news to be less of a surprise in the future. If he's unwilling to accommodate you, you can always provide counter examples to the management, although starting a firefight isn't wise if you need to continue working with the guy. As far as 'no big deal/it's not needed,' that might actually be true from a different perspective than yours. Don't assume you're right. It all comes back to having a policy/charter to fall back on. If nothing's official, it comes down to his word against yours. It's simple for the management to side with him- he's been here longer. This isn't nice, but it's real life. If you get him on board and create a charter to improve services, you can always fall back on "we've told management that we are looking to offer a professional level of services. This falls under this category as we agreed upon." It's a simple life hack/parenting hack/people 'manipulation' hack: It's hard to blame YOU when it's not YOU saying no. Protect yourself by implementing policy!

TL;DR:
Get this guy on your side even if it means that you get on his side at first. Figure out what's going on in his head, what you have to do to get him to see eye to eye, and realize you're not always right. Once you've opened up a candid channel of discussion, figure out what you can mutually agree upon to improve, and make it a contract between you two. This is much more successful if everyone has a reason to make it succeed (stakeholding). Implement policy, be tough, change hurts. Fall back on policy if you need to defend your position.

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by diredesire

It's funny, because I actually hate those tools. I got the bronze colored set way back when. I think the tools feel cheap, the 'springs' fall out, and the lamination (plating?) peels off with heavy use. This is mostly applicable to the smooth surfaced tools, though. I don't like heavily serrated gripping jaws on my stringing tools -- they're purpose built for other applications and with enough pressure will generally mar string. I prefer the micro pliers from Crescent for stringing purposes. If you see 'em on sale sometime, snap a set up. It's not important for how little pliers are actually used in stringing, though (assuming you don't pull knots with pliers). I almost only use my pliers for guiding string through blocked holes, which I'm pretty sure isn't the way most stringers use their pliers, so definitely take my opinions here with a huge grain of salt

haha. i guess compared to what i had before these are amazing. i agree they do feel kind of cheap, but they were cheap on sale. i am a tennis player, and make money as such. i think i am barely above poverty level. too much info probably....
i use the plier to pull my knots. havent had issues yet

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by diredesire

Example? Sounds pretty dramatic. Ask him to talk to you first about it, so you're on the same page. Tell him you're willing to listen and make necessary changes, and would prefer for the news to be less of a surprise in the future. If he's unwilling to accommodate you, you can always provide counter examples to the management, although starting a firefight isn't wise if you need to continue working with the guy. As far as 'no big deal/it's not needed,' that might actually be true from a different perspective than yours. Don't assume you're right. It all comes back to having a policy/charter to fall back on. If nothing's official, it comes down to his word against yours. It's simple for the management to side with him- he's been here longer. This isn't nice, but it's real life. If you get him on board and create a charter to improve services, you can always fall back on "we've told management that we are looking to offer a professional level of services. This falls under this category as we agreed upon." It's a simple life hack/parenting hack/people 'manipulation' hack: It's hard to blame YOU when it's not YOU saying no. Protect yourself by implementing policy!

TL;DR:
Get this guy on your side even if it means that you get on his side at first. Figure out what's going on in his head, what you have to do to get him to see eye to eye, and realize you're not always right. Once you've opened up a candid channel of discussion, figure out what you can mutually agree upon to improve, and make it a contract between you two. This is much more successful if everyone has a reason to make it succeed (stakeholding). Implement policy, be tough, change hurts. Fall back on policy if you need to defend your position.

yea isnt it? all i want to do is do a good job, and this guy is making it difficult for his own agenda.

its tough to talk to him. every conversation with him is him telling me what to do, when to do it, and whenever i even suggest something, etc he immediately shoots me down. he acts like his is the final say. if you like maybe i can post some texts he sent me. too bad i cant post phone conversations. i dont think you quite get the whole picture of how this guy works. i have tried listening to him, agreeing to what hes said even though it doesnt make sense. and he just keeps going on his highway. no stop signs or anything. i should give you his number.

as for getting him on board. i dont know how to go about doing this. he tells me we need to sit down and talk, then avoids me. wtf??? and when i do talk to him he refuses to listen at all, and just basically says "no we are doing it my way. thats it. done". literraly. thats what he says.

so yea back to my question. how do i approach mangaement to implement policy/ services to benefit members. i dont think he wants any part of that. his words and actions show as much. think about it. if he really cared, i wouldnt be making this thread.

i know i am not always right. this was all because i wanted to help out the members. the fact that i am unable to do something so simple as buying some tubing i think reveals his character.

[zapvor]

It still sounds like you're viewing this in a very adversarial tone. I understand if it feels like you're being treated unfairly, but IMO direct communication is the way to go here. If he leaves gut jobs for you, ask him if you should be expecting to do most of the gut jobs. If it's simply a risk/pain in the butt for him to work with gut due to the delicate nature, he might just prefer to let you deal with the liability, especially if you're on the hook for a ruined set. You're the low guy on the totem pole, this is normal It's similar to giving the intern the job that needs to get done but no one wants to do. Don't worry about this one too much.

Ask/tell him quite frankly that you'd like to improve communication between you two, and if there's any issues to please contact you first so you can improve the teamwork aspect. Get him to take ownership of the relationship, ask him to guide you as he's been there longer. Even if there's no technical skills you can learn, he's probably got a FEW protips that he can help you with. Build a relationship here, don't burn bridges. If there's anything that he discusses with you that is NOT shop policy, you have every right to go to management. This, OR you can discuss that you're willing to support it and keep things between you two, but you'd be more comfortable if there was a policy in place so you have something to fall back on if anything goes wrong. This provides safety for everyone, INCLUDING him. You can "back each other up" here. Back to the bumper guard example: He doesn't do replacements, so he tells customers that the shop wont' offer that service. Someone comes to talk to you, and you say "sure!" You undermine his authority here, and it's no surprise that he's giving you a cold shoulder. This is like a cunning kid asking Mom for ice cream for dinner, getting a no, and going straight for the sucker-dad. You need to work together, and if he's still giving you a hard no, find a way to get him on board, even if it's switching the subject to "I think these services would increase our revenue. I remember you telling me you wanted to make a ton of money, and I think this is an easy way for us to do that without having to pay anything out of pocket." It's just people management/strategy. If NOTHING else, and you continue to find this guy adversarial, you can practice your people skills on him

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oops didnt see this.

are you serious??? i understand the intern thing, but this is not an internship, and as far as management have made it clear we are on the same level. i am not lower than him. i dont like you pointing out his actions being ok because hes been there longer. so i guess those GM guys that went bankrupt was ok because they been doing the same thing for 100yrs. seniority is a huge obstacle to progress if you ask me. i am all about real contributions, not seniority. i thought you would be on the same side on this. interesting.....

and beside that, it makes no sense. say a customer needed a gut job same day. by your logic hes going to tell them "oh me and zapvor discussed it and hes the only person that strings gut, so come back tomorrow"

is this what you want to hear at the doctor/dentist/auto shop/ tennis warehouse??? "oh i am not in this dept, not my problem. come back when josh is back from vacation he can help you"

edit-ok my post sounds very harsh. i dont mean it to sound that way. up to now you have been really helpful so your post here kind of threw me off with the logic

[zapvor]

bottom line-he only cares about him, not the members. i am trying to help the members. how do i get management to help me accomplish this. thats all.