Advice on my SH Backhand

[Bungalo Bill]

Tough to analyze this video in normal speed while trying to find things. Maybe I am doing something wrong but would rather provide advice with some step framing or slomo.

Weight transfer to your front foot appears awkward or just not transferring consistently on each ball. You need to get more on that front foot for power.

On some swings you have a hitch meaning you are not taking the racquet up and then down and back up to meet the ball.

Ball speed for practice was way too fast and you are swinging too hard.. The fast ball speed is probably contributing to your lack of weight transfer and having a hitch in your swing which could mean you are trying to mature too fast.

The onehandeed backhand is not a cannon. It is a bow and arrow. Power comes from weight transfer, timing, and a repeatable simplistic swing.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by MoShow

@Cheetah, Luvforty also mentioned it, on coiling and better (faster) ready position, which I guess is linked with to much arm usage (which I agree on that I use that) But can you clarify or give an example how to incorporate body/leverage into the shot?! Really curious to find out and practise!

@LeeD, Nice observation, It is true that I am struggling with adding pace on the backhand side, but I already found out that incorporating the power position and a more forward swing with straighten arm adds a lot of power,....curious at Cheetah's post on bodyleverage!

it would be good if we had a side view of your bh.

Well... bungalo bill laid out a lot of it. If you have good weight transfer and timing then good leverage will come out of that.

leverage is exerting force upon another object in a 'lever' like manner. at the moment of truth (contact) you should have all the parts of your body working together to provide the most leverage possible.

If you had to smash a wall in front of you with your racquet using backhand form you would probably naturally generate more leverage. You would get your legs more into the smash. you would step into it. You would make contact far out in front of your body. you would probably use your body rotation and arm together. you would coil and uncoil. You would try to 'explode' at the moment of contact.

currently your arm and torso rotation are not working together. your arm is swinging 'on it's own' so at contact you are not getting as much leverage as you could be from your hips, torso and legs. The timing and weight transfer could be better. Most of your energy and weight transfer are stopping before contact. Then it's your arm alone doing the work. It's not horrible but the timing is a little off.

Also, Your grip is a little extreme imo. Most rec players who don't have a good 1hbh yet tend to gravitate towards extreme grips. The reason for that is that they get more leverage in their hand that way. They feel they can hold the racquet better. The extreme grip allows them to 'push' the ball with their hand behind the racquet more like in a fh.
(the 1hbh should not be a 'push'. It should be a pull type action from the shoulder. Like bill said 'bow and arrow - not cannon'.)
They feel they can't control the racquet and provide leverage with a more conservative grip. These players also tend to swing 'with their arm'.

A good way to develop better timing, weight transfer and leverage is to go to a more conservative grip. All of the best 1hbh players have pretty conservative grips, with a few exceptions. If you make your grip more conservative like a standard eastern bh grip then that will force you to generate the power and leverage from your whole body instead of just your arm. A more conservative grip also gives your hand more range of movement for more varying spins and control etc.
if that makes sense...

[always_crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

it would be good if we had a side view of your bh.

Well... bungalo bill laid out a lot of it. If you have good weight transfer and timing then good leverage will come out of that.

leverage is exerting force upon another object in a 'lever' like manner. at the moment of truth (contact) you should have all the parts of your body working together to provide the most leverage possible.

If you had to smash a wall in front of you with your racquet using backhand form you would probably naturally generate more leverage. You would get your legs more into the smash. you would step into it. You would make contact far out in front of your body. you would probably use your body rotation and arm together. you would coil and uncoil. You would try to 'explode' at the moment of contact.

currently your arm and torso rotation are not working together. your arm is swinging 'on it's own' so at contact you are not getting as much leverage as you could be from your hips, torso and legs. The timing and weight transfer could be better. Most of your energy and weight transfer are stopping before contact. Then it's your arm alone doing the work. It's not horrible but the timing is a little off.

Also, Your grip is a little extreme imo. Most rec players who don't have a good 1hbh yet tend to gravitate towards extreme grips. The reason for that is that they get more leverage in their hand that way. They feel they can hold the racquet better. The extreme grip allows them to 'push' the ball with their hand behind the racquet more like in a fh.
(the 1hbh should not be a 'push'. It should be a pull type action from the shoulder. Like bill said 'bow and arrow - not cannon'.)
They feel they can't control the racquet and provide leverage with a more conservative grip. These players also tend to swing 'with their arm'.

A good way to develop better timing, weight transfer and leverage is to go to a more conservative grip. All of the best 1hbh players have pretty conservative grips, with a few exceptions. If you make your grip more conservative like a standard eastern bh grip then that will force you to generate the power and leverage from your whole body instead of just your arm. A more conservative grip also gives your hand more range of movement for more varying spins and control etc.
if that makes sense...

What, that's bull - or at least state it's your opinion because it's not anywhere near fact. The best 1hbh's on the tour right now use an extreme grip (Volandri, Gasquet, Almagro)

There are two main ways of hitting a 1hbh, as far as I'm aware.

1). Typically uses a conservative grip, (continental to weak eastern), does not use much upper body rotation, instead flys back the non-hitting arm to prevent the torso from rotating. Your problem with this style is that it's 'arming' the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtSsFPX2avY

2). Typically uses an extreme grip (strong eastern to semi-western), and does incorporate significant torso rotation. Your problem with this style is that it's 'not using the whipping effect of the kinetic chain efficiently.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZpIDzwuW1c

So you have a problem with both.

You claim that for the 'proper' way to hit a 1hbh, you should violently rotate your torso, leave your arm floppy so that it just starts moving, then violently stop rotating your torso just before contact with the ball so that your arm whips through the shot. The arm is floppy throughout the whole motion. Now who is going to be able to bear all of that information in mind whilst executing a stroke without messing it up completely. Way too much information, way too overcomplicated...

....and not even necessary to play the game at the highest level - I just gave video examples of a pro who barely rotates his torso at all before or during contact, and an example of a pro who continues to rotate his torso before, during and after contact.

I don't care how good your rec level 1hbh is - it certainly isn't better than Dimitrov's or Wawrinka's, yet you're claiming the way they hit the ball is fundamentally incorrect.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

What, that's bull - or at least state it's your opinion because it's not anywhere near fact. The best 1hbh's on the tour right now use an extreme grip (Volandri, Gasquet, Almagro)

There are two main ways of hitting a 1hbh, as far as I'm aware.

1). Typically uses a conservative grip, (continental to weak eastern), does not use much upper body rotation, instead flys back the non-hitting arm to prevent the torso from rotating. Your problem with this style is that it's 'arming' the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtSsFPX2avY

2). Typically uses an extreme grip (strong eastern to semi-western), and does incorporate significant torso rotation. Your problem with this style is that it's 'not using the whipping effect of the kinetic chain efficiently.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZpIDzwuW1c

So you have a problem with both.

You claim that for the 'proper' way to hit a 1hbh, you should violently rotate your torso, leave your arm floppy so that it just starts moving, then violently stop rotating your torso just before contact with the ball so that your arm whips through the shot. The arm is floppy throughout the whole motion. Now who is going to be able to bear all of that information in mind whilst executing a stroke without messing it up completely. Way too much information, way too overcomplicated...

....and not even necessary to play the game at the highest level - I just gave video examples of a pro who barely rotates his torso at all before or during contact, and an example of a pro who continues to rotate his torso before, during and after contact.

I don't care how good your rec level 1hbh is - it certainly isn't better than Dimitrov's or Wawrinka's, yet you're claiming the way they hit the ball is fundamentally incorrect.

your level of reading comprehension is low.
'voilently rotate'? where did i say that?
i didn't say extreme grips were fundamentally incorrect. most players have conservative grips on the 1hbh. that's fact.

i don't have a problem with either style and i disagree with all your statements above regarding rotation and kinetic chain etc. Just because the off arm prevents rotation past contact somewhat does not mean they are not rotating.

Dimitrov is rotating his torso. It's obvious.
too much info is better than your mis-info.

[Bungalo Bill]

Off arm should pause rotation at contact as racquet goes through the ball before finishing.

[always_crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

your level of reading comprehension is low.
'voilently rotate'? where did i say that?
i didn't say extreme grips were fundamentally incorrect. most players have conservative grips on the 1hbh. that's fact.

i don't have a problem with either style and i disagree with all your statements above regarding rotation and kinetic chain etc. Just because the off arm prevents rotation past contact somewhat does not mean they are not rotating.

Dimitrov is rotating his torso. It's obvious.
too much info is better than your mis-info.

Your level of comprehending the things you have written yourself is low. You said 'all the best 1hbh's' are conservatively gripped. Need I remind you that the very best 1hbh's on tour right now are somewhat extreme. Wawrinka, Almagro and Gasquet. But whatever, I can't be fvcked to get into this pedantic tripe with you.

I've read your advice on the forums, you say that to hit a backhand you must;

1). Begin the stroke by rotating your torso.
2). Your arm is loose and will drag behind the rotating torso.
3). Stop rotating your torso just before contact. Flinging back your non-hitting arm helps with that.
4). Stopping the torso abruptly before contact transfers all the energy onto your racket arm which is now free to whip onto the ball.

The problem I have with all of that is it's WAY too complicated, and perhaps the best 1-hander on tour today doesn't do it.

Look at the video of Wawrinka. He rotates his torso all throughout contact - he does not stop the rotation just before. His non-hitting arm is not flung back - it moves around with his torso rotation. This gives a simpler, more natural stroke. And has Wawrinka's spin or power suffered? Lol, I would argue not.

But you know better than Wawrinka.

You need to explain to me why Wawrinka is not hitting a fundamentally sound backhand, and why he is inefficiently using the kinetic chain.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

Your level of comprehending the things you have written yourself is low. You said 'all the best 1hbh's' are conservatively gripped. Need I remind you that the very best 1hbh's on tour right now are somewhat extreme. Wawrinka, Almagro and Gasquet. But whatever, I can't be fvcked to get into this pedantic tripe with you.

I've read your advice on the forums, you say that to hit a backhand you must;

1). Begin the stroke by rotating your torso.
2). Your arm is loose and will drag behind the rotating torso.
3). Stop rotating your torso just before contact. Flinging back your non-hitting arm helps with that.
4). Stopping the torso abruptly before contact transfers all the energy onto your racket arm which is now free to whip onto the ball.

The problem I have with all of that is it's WAY too complicated, and perhaps the best 1-hander on tour today doesn't do it.

Look at the video of Wawrinka. He rotates his torso all throughout contact - he does not stop the rotation just before. His non-hitting arm is not flung back - it moves around with his torso rotation. This gives a simpler, more natural stroke. And has Wawrinka's spin or power suffered? Lol, I would argue not.

But you know better than Wawrinka.

You need to explain to me why Wawrinka is not hitting a fundamentally sound backhand, and why he is inefficiently using the kinetic chain.

it was a typo. i meant 'most' not 'all' of course.

wawrinka has a conservative grip. his off arm doesn't move around. it's extended a little more to the side. it's still serving THE SAME PURPOSE as those with less rotation and a back flung arm.
i never said 'the arm will drag behind'. i said 'the racquet lags. the arm is loose as it should be in all strokes. the arm and torso move together. it's called timing. the rotation slows or stops whatever and the racquet whips through.
i never said 'stop the rotation abruptly'. nobody 'stops abruptly'. not sure how you gleaned this.

comprehension my friend...

[always_crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

it was a typo. i meant 'most' not 'all' of course.

wawrinka has a conservative grip. his off arm doesn't move around. it's extended a little more to the side. it's still serving THE SAME PURPOSE as those with less rotation and a back flung arm.
i never said 'the arm will drag behind'. i said 'the racquet lags. the arm is loose as it should be in all strokes. the arm and torso move together. it's called timing. the rotation slows or stops whatever and the racquet whips through.
i never said 'stop the rotation abruptly'. nobody 'stops abruptly'. not sure how you gleaned this.

comprehension my friend...

Christ, you split the finest hairs and then claim that I have no reading comprehension.

The racket lags behind the body? That is the same thing as dragging behind the body, which is what I said. And it's definitely not the same thing as the body and arm moving as a unit, which would insinuate they move together instead of one dragging (or lagging, whatever) behind.

If the torso is to stop rotating during the swing - how can it not stop abruptly? Think how quickly a stroke happens. How can one possibly have time to think about accelerating and then slowly decelerating their torso rotation - all before contact with the ball is made? How can the stroke possibly be explosive if you have to start rotating your torso and then slowly stop it rotating before you make contact with the ball? Furthermore, the 'whip' effect of transferring the energy from the torso to the arm can only be achieved if one component (ie. the torso) stops moving abruptly.

I do not see this 'whip' effect in several pro backhands;

Look at Gaudio here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCPoTVUbcY

His non-hitting arm is by his side all throughout contact with the ball. Only after does it extend for balance purposes - but by then the ball has long been struck.

This means his non-hitting arm definitely did NOT 'help to decelerate his torso from rotating just before contact, therefore transferring the energy from the torso to the racket arm' - as in your theory of how the 1hbh should be hit.

Wawrinka's non-hitting arm in the vid I linked also is pointing to the side fence, (and not the back fence) during contact and after contact, therefore cannot have stopped his torso rotating before contact. His non-hitting arm swung around with his torso - so couldn't possibly have stopped his torso from rotating.

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by MoShow

@BevelDevil, luvforty and fuzznation, well I read Beveldevel's advices and directly went out and practise , trying to achieve a better power position definetely adds power to my stroke, although the timing and rythm of the drop and then the forward hit is something that takes a lot of time to master I guess. (Am I not going to hit my right knee with the buttcap??) After that I went on practise with a more straight arm and forward swing, that is really something that took 5 min of adjustment (felt a bit awkward at beginning), but damn! That added power and consistency, I was not aware I could hit my backhand like that. Far less frame shots because of pulling the racket to fast up.!

It's nice to hear you had immediate improvement! Power position and an early straight arm make a huge difference.

The straight arm will feel "heavier" when you swing it, so it will take some practice to get used to the timing. But the stability and power of the straight arm will pay off.


To use your body more, at lot of it has to do with proper weight transfer. Fortunately, this is easy to do. Watch that video I posted right before he talked about the power position. Proper heel-to-toe timing at the racket drop will allow the body to uncoil more naturally. And look at how Federer/Henin are leaning into the shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqBEErW0vTA#t=4m26s

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by always_crosscourt

Christ, you split the finest hairs and then claim that I have no reading comprehension.

The racket lags behind the body? That is the same thing as dragging behind the body, which is what I said.

no. you said i said the arm lags/drags. it does not and I didnt say that.

If the torso is to stop rotating during the swing - how can it not stop abruptly? Think how quickly a stroke happens. How can one possibly have time to think about accelerating and then slowly decelerating their torso rotation -

you dont have to think about it. technique and using your off arm handles it for you.

I do not see this 'whip' effect in several pro backhands;

Look at Gaudio here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCPoTVUbcY

His non-hitting arm is by his side all throughout contact with the ball. Only after does it extend for balance purposes - but by then the ball has long been struck.

the 'whip' effect is clearly there in his swing. he's transferring his weight, his rotation slows and the speed of his arm increases after his rotation slows. it's not as pronounced as some players but it's still there.

slowing the rotation has the same effect as 'stopping'. you don't need to 'fully stop' rotation of course. but with correct technique the more the rotation slows the more racquet whipping you will get.

[MoShow]

Well I am not going to interrupt in this discussion, because I clearly don't know the 'right answer'... But I think that, whatever grip u are using, the coil-ucoiling-stop swing comes naturally if u pay attention to the other parts in the stroke (weight transfer etc)..

I will try to practise all your advices, thank you very much! I hope that when I am able to master the weight transfer (which add leverage as I read), rotate my shoulder/body more when preparing and incorporate the power position, my backhand will improve to a level where it is stable en powerfull enough to compete. Will definetely try to make a new video then and post it!

Unfortunately I am also just a weekend warrior so have to wait till friday before I can practise...

[Greg G]

Try to find time to shadow stroke. In the office, in the shower...

[Buford T Justice]

Originally Posted by MoShow

Well I am not going to interrupt in this discussion, because I clearly don't know the 'right answer'... But I think that, whatever grip u are using, the coil-ucoiling-stop swing comes naturally if u pay attention to the other parts in the stroke (weight transfer etc)..

I will try to practise all your advices, thank you very much! I hope that when I am able to master the weight transfer (which add leverage as I read), rotate my shoulder/body more when preparing and incorporate the power position, my backhand will improve to a level where it is stable en powerfull enough to compete. Will definetely try to make a new video then and post it!

Unfortunately I am also just a weekend warrior so have to wait till friday before I can practise...

Regardless of any of the banter above, know that your BH is better than 99% of them out there.

All this gets made too complicated. And...just wait 10 years and then the "proper" way to hit a stroke will change again.....!!!!!

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by Buford T Justice

And...just wait 10 years and then the "proper" way to hit a stroke will change again.....!!!!!

Maybe sooner than that. It's possible that the retirement/reduced visibility of Roger Federer may be the best thing for the health of the 1hbh.

While he has inspired many people to give it a try, he's a terrible model for beginners, and has probably either significantly stunted many players development and/or created converts/re-converts to the 2hbh.

Unfortunately, there's this Dimitrov guy coming along...