Why isn't there more S+V in the WTA?

[pushitgood]

Not sure if this is a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway. As a general rule, most of the women can't generate RHS comparable to the men, so they can't hit dipping passing shots. They hit flatter. They're also less explosive, so when they're put on the run, they can't set up as well to hit a passing shot. So with all things being equal, why don't we see more women trying to throw in some s+v or c+c? It seems like it'd be more viable for women to attack the net, but this isn't reflected in their play. Their game is dominated by baseline play (which is tends to be more error-prone because they hit flatter than the men), whereas the ATP includes all-courters and outliers like Llodra or Stepanek.

Am I missing something? What's to prevent a player like a Navratilova or Billie Jean King from coming in and blowing the women's game wide open?

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by pushitgood

Not sure if this is a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway. As a general rule, most of the women can't generate RHS comparable to the men, so they can't hit dipping passing shots. They hit flatter. They're also less explosive, so when they're put on the run, they can't set up as well to hit a passing shot. So with all things being equal, why don't we see more women trying to throw in some s+v or c+c? It seems like it'd be more viable for women to attack the net, but this isn't reflected in their play. Their game is dominated by baseline play (which is tends to be more error-prone because they hit flatter than the men), whereas the ATP includes all-courters and outliers like Llodra or Stepanek.

Am I missing something? What's to prevent a player like a Navratilova or Billie Jean King from coming in and blowing the women's game wide open?

They are only trained for the so called "Modern Game", they don't know how to serve and volley.

[Tanya]

Originally Posted by Mick3391

They are only trained for the so called "Modern Game", they don't know how to serve and volley.

Adding to this many women can't rely on their serve enough to pull off this style of play. With the return game as big as it currently is there is more pressure than ever to not only get the serve in, but make it a serve that isn't easily attacked. Whereas in the past the serve was more of a rally-starter than a chance to get ahead in the point, today it can either put you at an immediate advantage or an immediate disadvantage.

[slowfox]

Let's say a player has a Serena serve, or maybe Lisicki. Those are good serves. If they developed a net game to back it up, can they dominate the baseliners? A new WTA GOAT would be born !

[Relinquis]

people forget that the serve isn't the only approach shot... you can come in on a low/deep slice, or a wide groundstroke.


i think they lack the skill at the net and lack good overhead smash (for the most part). You need a good overhead to protect against lobs or to put away floaters; this is related to the weak serves.

are they any all-courters left on the WTA tour? you need a certain ability to move well around and within the court in order to have a net game. During Bartoli's match in Dubai today/last night, she would move into the court to attack 2nd serves, and end up almost at the service line and instead of covering the net, she would shuffle back to the baseline. she could have ended so many easy points with one or two more strokes if she had volleyed once or twice every return game against 2nd serves.

another thing that is sorely lacking is touch shots. i can't remember the last time i saw a wta hit a drop shot. touch shots require mental calmness though. you can't do this when all of the on-court coaching revolved around getting the players angry and aggressive.

Look at llodra or stepanek play. they smile so much! that allows them to stay loose for drop volleys, touch shots and in order to adjust to fast incoming balls at the net.

i'm surprised all of the women who play doubles don't come in more...

[SStrikerR]

Their serves and volleys suck. That's why you even see some WTA doubles teams play two back a lot.

[PrinceMoron]

Watched Hingis, Mauresmo, Sanchez Vicario and Pierce play doubles late into the evening at WO. Only one volley on the court. Not hard to guess who.

[whoopinstick]

if not serve and volley than it should be return and volley

[BevelDevil]

In addition to the serve, many female players are too slow to get to the net quickly. And if a women were fast enough to get to the net, she would probably also be fast enough to just be a retriever. Height, reach, jumping ability, and movement at the net are probably other factors.

Pre-luxilon there weren't many S&V women players, and I suspect the same could be said about pre-graphite play.

[LeeD]

You only need to try playing S/V on every serve to know the answer.
All court skills are hard to attain, is a LOT of work, and requires a mental skillset not common with junior tennis developement.

[rodrigoamaral]

because a serve and volleyer would lose 0 and 0 in 45 minutes in womens tennis, other than williams... their serves suck!!!

[pushitgood]

I get that it's harder to develop an all-court game, but it seems like going to net should entail less risk in the women's game than in the men's, and that it would pay greater dividends. With less spin at their disposal, women's baseline rallies often seem to devolve into wars of attrition or a battle of UFEs.

When I caught the AO match between Kuznetsova and Wozniacki, I really enjoyed Kuznetsova's style of play. She had a lot of variety in her game and showed a willingness to attack the net. But she seems to be a bit of an outlier.

I'll probably come across as sexist for saying this, but as a spectator I think the power baseline approach in women's tennis is boring to watch. If I want to see power, I can watch a men's tennis match. I think it would be more interesting if the women used finesse, guile and strategy to compensate for their relative lack of strength, but that's not how modern women's tennis is played at the moment.

[pushitgood]

Originally Posted by Tanya

Adding to this many women can't rely on their serve enough to pull off this style of play. With the return game as big as it currently is there is more pressure than ever to not only get the serve in, but make it a serve that isn't easily attacked. Whereas in the past the serve was more of a rally-starter than a chance to get ahead in the point, today it can either put you at an immediate advantage or an immediate disadvantage.

This makes sense. But why is there such a disparity in women's serves relative to their returns? Why hasn't the new racquet technology increased the power of their serves in a proportional manner? Is this a matter of biomechanics?

[rossi46]

Originally Posted by pushitgood

This makes sense. But why is there such a disparity in women's serves relative to their returns? Why hasn't the new racquet technology increased the power of their serves in a proportional manner? Is this a matter of biomechanics?

If you are mentally weak eg. that superb first set in the Aus Open where there were 7 breaks of serve in 10 games no amount of technology is going to help. If the men don't play S & V what chance do women have ?? A lot of them are fat as well, that doesn't help their cause.

[nereis]

Men have more advantageously structured shoulders for serving. All else equal, a man will have a livelier arm that is more capable of pronating.

A man is also more capable of having explosive power from the legs and rear chain to get the spin needed for a good kick serve.

[Devilito]

Serve and volley has nothing to do with a big serve. It’s about having a “good” serve and exceptional movement more than anything. In general, women don’t have the movement and footwork necessary for a S&V game. Players like Navratilova come once in 100 years so i wouldn't hold my breath

[TennisCJC]

I have always thought that players like Maria Sharapova and Lindsey Davenport would be models for at least all court tennis with lots of attacking the net in the their game plan. Both had overpowering groundstrokes as long as they are not on the run. Why not come in behind the big groundstrokes when you hurt an opponent rather than hang back and let the opponent work their way back to neutral. Both were tall and would have made had an imposing presence at the net if they developed good volleys. Both could have thrown in at least some S&V too but they would have to work on the movement a lot.

Off topic, but Djoko also is guilty of staying back and letting players work back to neutral. Yes, he is dominating now so you can say what does it matter as long as he wins. But, he would have beaten Nadal in 4 sets in their 6 hours Astralian final had he followed wicked groundstrokes to net on 2 different points with a 5-2 lead in the 4th set tie breaker. He had Nadal 15 feet behind the baseline with his back to the net making defensive digs and Djoko backed up on both points. Absolutely stupid tennis. He was very fortunate to win in 5 and easily could have lost.

[jonnythan]

Because the only points they would win would be UEs from their opponents. They would get passed with every shot.

[citybert]

SV and also a much more physical and explosive game to play as well, just not as much endurance/stamina. this could be another reason.

[dominikk1985]

women have proportionally stronger Returns than serves.

women don't hit as hard as men but they still hit plenty hard. I have seen 90 mph groundstrokes from Girls like sharapova, williams or stosur.

in contrast to that their serves are often quite weak (thus all the breaks).

just watch some matches how Girls like sharapova or williams tee off the serves of their opponents weak serves. not the best idea to come Forward then unless you are a big Server like serena, kvitova or lisicky.