What is the typical tournament-level 4.0 player like?

[andyaycw]

Considering testing the waters again and getting back into singles. Questioning whether it is a good idea or not. Been 9 years since my last singles match in a tournament in the Junior age divisions, and I have just started my 2nd USTA league season playing doubles at the 4.0 level.

I only have the opportunity to play on the weekends - I'm under the impression that most entering tournaments have the chance to play 4-5 times a week, so I'd be at a big disadvantage. Though, I wonder if it might also be a bit of a fun challenge..

Tips/advice if you believe it is worth it for me to try my hand at singles tournaments?

[SweetH2O]

If you do well in 4.0 leagues, you'll do fine in 4.0 tournaments. The skill levels of the players won't be that different. I don't think 4.0 tournament players play 4-5 times a week any more than 4.0 league players do.

The major differences will be that you will be playing singles rather than doubles, and you'll have to be fit enough to probably play more than one match per day. Only you know if you can overcome the differences between leagues and tournaments.

[Govnor]

Like Sweet says, there is a difference between singles and doubles. They are different games, really. If you're not comfortable at the baseline and extending rallies, you will have a tough time in singles. As stated, it is also much more taxing, physically.

[slowfox]

And practice your fist pumps and c'mon's...
In my limited tourney experience, I find the players take it waaaay too seriously.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by slowfox

And practice your fist pumps and c'mon's...
In my limited tourney experience, I find the players take it waaaay too seriously.

You need to practice how to tie a headband quickly too. Or just show up with one already on.

[oldschoolrules]

Definitely give it a go! If there is any difference between singles play in regular league and NTRP tourneys it is the fact that in the tournaments the singles players actually WANT to play singles and, as such, often have more decisive game plans than those guys who may get stuck on the singles court by their captain

[anubis]

There's a huge difference between doubles and singles around here. Just a few weeks ago I played a doubles match. My team beat the other team pretty handily, they didn't put up much of a fight. The stronger player kept double faulting and hitting long. He rarely hit it in, and when he did it was easy to take control of the point.

So we finished the game and he and I decided to play a quick singles game. I figured it would be easy, since he couldn't keep the ball in play and couldn't serve. Well, boy was I wrong. He easily bageled me. I never got more than 15 on any point. He aced me 6 or 7 times in one set. Hit winner after winner. I couldn't keep up with him at all.

So either he was doing a "reverse sandbag" routine, or I'm just a better doubles player and horrible singles player.

So I guess the point is, if you've played with some of the folks already in doubles and think you can take them in singles, then I guess you shouldn't really use any of your doubles history as a benchmark. That information just doesn't apply and probably can't help you in any way with planning your singles matches.

[OrangePower]

As others have mentioned, there is a big difference between dubs players and singles players. If you have been playing 4.0 dubs it might be better to first try play singles league rather than tournaments. With league you'd just be playing one match at a time, rather than needing to potentially play several over the course of a weekend during a tournament. If you are not in singles shape, that will be a tall order.

On the other hand, if you are in shape and have had some experience playing singles in league, then you might actually find matches in tournaments slightly easier than those in league. At least in my area, league players tend on average to be stronger than tournament players. The better players tend not to play tournaments, and when they do, they tend to play up.

[fleabitten]

Around here, the league players are a little stronger than the tournament players on average. Anyone else's city like this?

[Carlito]

Conditioning is a big factor. The guys that win know how to go the distance. Sometimes you need to be able to go 3-4 rounds in 2 days. Its different than getting ready for 1 league match per weekend.

[goober]

My experience: The best 4.0 singles players in leagues often avoid tourneys because they don't want a ratings bump. The finalists and semifinalists are often equal to the level you see in 4.0 leauges. Early rounds are filled with self rates that are often 3.5 or weak 4.0s.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by fleabitten

Around here, the league players are a little stronger than the tournament players on average. Anyone else's city like this?

I would say the levels of the players are more variable, but not necessarily stronger or weaker. About half of the tournament players are (usually stronger) league players, but the other half are self-rates just for the tournament who range from cannon fodder to guys who dominate 4.5 leagues the following year and didn't know their level when they registered for the tournament.

Tournament matches don't count towards DNTRP, so there is no incentive to avoid tournaments.

[goober]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

Tournament matches don't count towards DNTRP, so there is no incentive to avoid tournaments.

Depends on section. Our section they do count but only to end of year ratings not dynamic ratings.

*edit I saw you wrote DNTRP- but there is still an incentive to avoid them if you are intent on not getting bumped at the end of year.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by goober

Depends on section. Our section they do count but only to end of year ratings not dynamic ratings.

*edit I saw you wrote DNTRP- but there is still an incentive to avoid them if you are intent on not getting bumped at the end of year.

Yeah, I meant end of the year DNTRP. They don't factor into dynamic ratings at all in Middle States, whether during or just at the end of the year. I don't think tournament matches are ever used in the "as you go" DNTRP, but are added into the year end DNTRP for certain sections. If it's something that is discouraging league players from playing tournaments, they should probably re-think that.

Also, do they use open tournament matches or just NTRP torunaments? If a 4.0 player runs into a 5.0 or 5.5 rated player in a tournament and manages just a game or two, that could end up as a serious ding on his/her end of year DNTRP even though they were completely blown out in the match.

[hittman10]

Originally Posted by slowfox

And practice your fist pumps and c'mon's...
In my limited tourney experience, I find the players take it waaaay too seriously.

You aint kidding brother!

[Murrayalmagrofan]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

I would say the levels of the players are more variable, but not necessarily stronger or weaker. About half of the tournament players are (usually stronger) league players, but the other half are self-rates just for the tournament who range from cannon fodder to guys who dominate 4.5 leagues the following year and didn't know their level when they registered for the tournament.

Agreed. That's been my experience as well!

[goober]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

Yeah, I meant end of the year DNTRP. They don't factor into dynamic ratings at all in Middle States, whether during or just at the end of the year. I don't think tournament matches are ever used in the "as you go" DNTRP, but are added into the year end DNTRP for certain sections. If it's something that is discouraging league players from playing tournaments, they should probably re-think that.

Also, do they use open tournament matches or just NTRP torunaments? If a 4.0 player runs into a 5.0 or 5.5 rated player in a tournament and manages just a game or two, that could end up as a serious ding on his/her end of year DNTRP even though they were completely blown out in the match.

From what I understand open and age group tournaments do not factor into NTRP calculations only NTRP tournaments count. I found this out when I asked an LC about a guy who was winning open level tournaments being allowed to play on a 4.0 team.

[loosegroove]

Originally Posted by fleabitten

Around here, the league players are a little stronger than the tournament players on average. Anyone else's city like this?

It depends on the draw of the tournament, but I would tend to agree with what you're saying for around here. None of the strongest league singles players around here play in the tournaments. And I've seen some of the below average leauge players have some success at tournaments, which can only mean the competition isn't as strong.

[chatt_town]

that is funny....lol you right though...also practice your "wtfs" You are suppose to question a minimum of 3 line calls that are at the opposite side of from which you hit the ball. You need to practice walking to the net and leaning over it after a huge first serve has been called out to.lol

Originally Posted by slowfox

And practice your fist pumps and c'mon's...
In my limited tourney experience, I find the players take it waaaay too seriously.

[MNPlayer]

Originally Posted by fleabitten

Around here, the league players are a little stronger than the tournament players on average. Anyone else's city like this?

Yup, that's my experience here in MN as well. Part of it, I think, is that teams will typically field their strongest players for the singles lines, while the other guys play doubles. So while there are some strong players in tournaments, it's more of a mix, and the average is probably a bit lower.