Should the racket face be closed at impact for a SW grip?

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by 10isfreak

At or very near 0, you don‘t send the ball into the net... you hit the frame. And he very clearly stated his point: not open, not closed, but vertical.

That‘s clear and can‘t be interpreted in any other way. It‘s also clearly wrong, given our factual knowledge...

I have seen pics of Fed's strings almost exactly vertical at impact.

[LeeD]

Pics can show any angle, depending on player intent.
Pics can show very closed face, if he's hitting reverse forehands or putaway balls with heavy top.
Pics can show an open face, when he's hitting a sliced forehand.

[pkshooter]

You're over thinking it bro. Go out take a couple swings with a woody. You stroke shouldn't change between a graphite and woody.

[TennisCJC]

Ok, we are not pros - at least I am not, but here are my interpretation of the facts.

Pros overwhelmingly hit topspin with a slightly closed racket face on the FH and even backhand in today's game. They do this because you can generate more spin with a less severe upward swing path. Nadal and Federer are closed on average around 10%.

I think pros do this for a reason and the reason is it is the easiest and most efficient way to hit a hard topspin shot.

So, if you want to hit a hard topspin shot, learn to hit with a slightly closed racket face.

You get higher RPM rates from a slightly closed racket face which allows you to have a smaller upward angle thru contact. The smaller upward angle prevents shanks as the racket head is in-line with the ball longer.

I think you want to work on closing the racket face immediately in your prep (first move) and work on a loop to contact that keeps it closed while you go loop back, down and forward to contact. You don't have to go too far below the ball - the top side of the racket as you start forward will be about the height of the ball. Federer and Nadal have about a 15% angle for low to high for typical rally shots and generate over 2000 rpm.

So, my view - closes the face during all phases of the swing and it is still about 5-10% closed at contact. Note, it does open from the fully back position where it may point mostly at the ground to contact but still closed a wee bit at contact.

[TennisCJC]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I have seen pics of Fed's strings almost exactly vertical at impact.

The tennisspeed blog has studied all the pros with many slow mo analysis of each. Yes, there may be an outlier where you see a vertical racket but for groundstrokes, overwhelming closed racket face and Federer and Nadal with straight arm forehands are closed more than most - in the 10%+ range.

[TennisCJC]

Tennis Speed link to show closed racket face at contact - Federer vs Djoko comparison - both closed and photos of many others with closed racket face.

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/

[TennisCJC]

I do agree that you can hit topspin with a vertical racket face but it requires a more severe Low-to-Hi swing path to get the near the same spin rates. Vic Braden and a million other coaches taught this way for decades. But, slightly closed with accelerating swing is most efficient method and even intermediates with moderate swing speeds can get decent spin with closed face approach if they accelerate thru contact.

[rkelley]

So a question for all of the "close the racquet face for topspin" folks: If opening and closing the racquet face controls topspin, what controls the height of the ball over the net?

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by rkelley

So a question for all of the "close the racquet face for topspin" folks: If opening and closing the racquet face controls topspin, what controls the height of the ball over the net?

Topspin is controlled by more than opening or closing the racket face. As is the the height of the ball controlled by more than one factor. Angle of racket head, swingpath, spin and direction of the incomming ball comes to my mind.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by rkelley

So a question for all of the "close the racquet face for topspin" folks: If opening and closing the racquet face controls topspin, what controls the height of the ball over the net?

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Topspin is controlled by more than opening or closing the racket face. As is the the height of the ball controlled by more than one factor. Angle of racket head, swingpath, spin and direction of the incomming ball comes to my mind.

I can control the angle of the racquet head and the swingpath, but how do I control the spin and direction of the incoming ball? Seems like those are variables that I react to, not control.

[martini1]

If you are inside the baseline and hitting angles I don't see why not with a closed racket face, especially if the ball is above the net.

From behind the baseline it is a different story.

[user92626]

Originally Posted by rkelley

I can control the angle of the racquet head and the swingpath, but how do I control the spin and direction of the incoming ball? Seems like those are variables that I react to, not control.

rkelley,



Much of the stuff we do in tennis is eventually done by feels. The higher the speed the higher the awareness and feels.


How is keeping the racket face open/perpendicular at contact working out for you? Do you launch the ball long often? Try both (open and close racket face) and see what works for you. Doesn't hurt to try.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by martini1

If you are inside the baseline and hitting angles I don't see why not with a closed racket face, especially if the ball is above the net.

From behind the baseline it is a different story.

Video evidence shows that pros are hitting ball from behind the baseline with a slightly closed racket face and it is clearing the net. Look at this video of Federer practicing. It looks like the face is slightly closed on most fhs. Other video evidence cited shows that this is usually the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_y4QqIpNY

I think the speed of the incoming ball makes a difference on how closed the racket face may be, but I haven't carefully studied it.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by rkelley

So a question for all of the "close the racquet face for topspin" folks: If opening and closing the racquet face controls topspin, what controls the height of the ball over the net?

I think racket face opening/closure also controls the height, along with the swingpath and swingspeed.

[julian]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I think racket face opening/closure also controls the height, along with the swingpath and swingspeed.

You should really take a bit of time producing your multiple threads.
You use a phrase "controls the height".
You do NOT say height of what?
Do you refer to a ball or a racket etc,etc?
I can make a guess etc,etc,but ...

[julian]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

Video evidence shows that pros are hitting ball from behind the baseline with a slightly closed racket face and it is clearing the net. Look at this video of Federer practicing. It looks like the face is slightly closed on most fhs. Other video evidence cited shows that this is usually the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_y4QqIpNY

I think the speed of the incoming ball makes a difference on how closed the racket face may be, but I haven't carefully studied it.

Please check PAT THE CAT THREAD

[thecode]

Originally Posted by TennisCJC

Pros overwhelmingly hit topspin with a slightly closed racket face on the FH and even backhand in today's game. They do this because you can generate more spin with a less severe upward swing path. Nadal and Federer are closed on average around 10%.

I think pros do this for a reason and the reason is it is the easiest and most efficient way to hit a hard topspin shot.

So, if you want to hit a hard topspin shot, learn to hit with a slightly closed racket face.
.

You say this so well and accurately. Flatter, hard Topspin shots like the pros often hit are as you say above. More rolling or loopy topspin we often see in rec tennis are often hit with a vertical or slightly open face, especially when hitting a dropping ball.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by user92626

rkelley,



Much of the stuff we do in tennis is eventually done by feels. The higher the speed the higher the awareness and feels.


How is keeping the racket face open/perpendicular at contact working out for you? Do you launch the ball long often? Try both (open and close racket face) and see what works for you. Doesn't hurt to try.

This is exactly my point. You open/close the racquet face to make the height over the net and depth in your opponent's court work. You have to make some estimations based on the incoming ball and the swing path, but the point I've tried to make is that closing the face doesn't create topspin in and of itself (at least in any useful way), it controls the position of the ball over the net. It's fundamentally the upward swing that creates topspin.

[LeeD]

It's not only adjusting the racketface angle, it's adjusting the swingPATH, swing speed, and swing style.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by LeeD

It's not only adjusting the racketface angle, it's adjusting the swingPATH, swing speed, and swing style.

Didn't I say that above, at least regarding swing path? Swing speed is a variable too.