This Just In: Flu Shots Not All They're Cracked Up To Be

[v-verb]

Originally Posted by Govnor

this year has been brutal for flu. worst year i've ever seen.

Probably because so many people are skipping the flu shot.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by ollinger

^^ you're right....some scientists believe that immunizations of various kinds may jazz up the immune system and activate it in such a way that it may actually aid in the body's fight against cancer, the thrust of cancer research now being immunological. Look it up. Fascinating stuff.

Yes, I am aware.

And I also have heard that the "jazzing" of the immune system might also kick it into overdrive and cause autoimmune disorders where the immune system attacks the host.

Of course, one would expect new diagnoses for cancer to be declining substantially over time as we have vaccinated more and more and more.

Is there any evidence for that?

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by v-verb

Probably because so many people are skipping the flu shot.

More likely because the shot doesn't work half the time.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

No flu shot for me, 51 years and counting. No flu either.

I'm with WildVolley. If you tell me you have a vaccine for a disease but you aren't sure what strain will strike me, you're using "guesswork," your guesswork is only about 50% effective when most other vaccines are 90% effective, I have to get it every year, yet you don't understand *why* it is less effective among the elderly, then I would send you away to do your homework before I let you stick a needle in my arm.

Get the flu shot, maybe it is too late this year. but for sure, every year get it please. and Discard that article from Washington post. Stop reading articles from these news agencies because it is written for layman.
GET the flushot. It is Effective. Not 100 % effective but it is Effective. It is Impossible to match 100 % of the strains out there but actually this year was better than other years in effectiveness.
It is MUCH MUCH better than not getting it. especially for older folks. Fraile elderly can get super-infections on top of Flu and can die. Anyway to lower the risk of Flu is Better than none.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Yes, I am aware.

And I also have heard that the "jazzing" of the immune system might also kick it into overdrive and cause autoimmune disorders where the immune system attacks the host.

Of course, one would expect new diagnoses for cancer to be declining substantially over time as we have vaccinated more and more and more.

Is there any evidence for that?

Why would you expect that when bad eating habits, sedentary behavior, and pollution may also be on the rise?

These are not single variable things that are simple to analyze.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Why would you expect that when bad eating habits, sedentary behavior, and pollution may also be on the rise?

These are not single variable things that are simple to analyze.

That's true.

I understood Ollinger to be implying that vaccination is helping with cancer rates.

If cancer diagnosis rates were declining, this would support his argument.

If cancer diagnosis rates are instead rising, it could refute his argument. Or it could mean nothing and be attributable to other factors, as you say.

Ollinger made an interesting observation, but it would be a shame if we got side-tracked into thinking flu vaccines are good for us because they lower the risk of cancer.

[sureshs]

^^^ I agree.

To be honest, I have always been on the fence about the flu vaccine, which is why I start the annual flu-vaccine bashing thread every year. We are going to do it one more year till the kid finishes high school, and then probably drop it. And pick it up again in our 80s if we are still around.

[v-verb]

I used to skip the shot - would get the flu for a week - sicker than hell. I've been getting the shot yearly for the last few years. No flu.

Skip the flu shot. I don't really care. Get sick or not - your choice. Kids and elderly die every year from the flu. Sad because it's likely preventable.

I'm not wasting any more time providing any articles to read. Do what you want.

Kill this stupid thread because the vaccine dissenters will never change.

[Talker]

No evidence has been found that the vacccine prevents transmission of the flu, one of the reasons pro vaccination people use without really knowing. They just assume it.

http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/201...oration-study/


The evidence is very poor for vaccines, and there's not time to test the vaccine so you have to take your chances they are safe, but there are risks without a doubt. There are other ways that are much safer and not only work better but have other benefits.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v08n02.shtml

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

One more, from CDC. Remember, 2009-2010 was the year swine flu was supposed to kill us all.

*************
Here's something I didn't know. Despite the mass freak-out over the swine flu, the CDC did not ever evaluate the efficacy of the vaccine:

That's being a bit simplistic there, swine flu was nasty, if you didn't get it you were lucky. I got it and was bad for a few days, it put our daughter in hospital and spread quickly around our extended family as we had all met up before anyone showed any symptoms. Sadly all of this was about a fortnight before the vaccine was made avaliable.
I've had "normal" seasonal flu about 10 years ago and it was worse than that but the biggest problems is that for example this years vaccine covers a variation of swine flu in it (here in the UK) it's got a version of what is thought to be the most likely "seasonal" vaiant to spread this year but it is partly guess work. Should that be enough to put you off, no, but it should make you look into anything you take.
There were evaluations on the drugs given to people who had it at the start of swine flu season, how would you evaluate a vaccine though? Look at chicken pox, people vaccinated, it went into declline then after 5 or 10 years they didn't get the booster, it came back.
Emotive subject though and the internet is rarely a place for sane voices to be heard!

[SwankPeRFection]

Never had a flu shot... last time I got the flu was when I was a kid in school and even then it was more like a cold than anything else. Wash your hands before meals, stay away from people that are sick. Wash your hands when you touch something that's been touched by someone who shows signs of being sick with anything. Eat peppermint candy when you're around people who are sick. Yes, believe it or not, peppermint in your stomach is a natural antiseptic of sorts.

[ollinger]

^^ and stay away from people who AREN'T sick as well! Flu is transmittable for pretty much the entire incubation period (i.e. before symptoms become evident), as much as 4 days, this being one of the reasons it spreads so readily.

[iradical18]

As a Nursing student, I still have to say just get the damn shot. It's one of the main reasons the elderly fill up my 5th floor and turn it in to a nursing home. They get the flu and end up getting pneumonia or something worse. Sure, weigh your pros and your cons and make the choice for yourself but if it's just a needle stick that may prevent you from giving the flu to something else why not just get it.

[Fuji]

Just skimmed, but I haven't gotten a flu shot in over 10 years, and I'm rarely sick with flu or anything in that vein. That being said, possibly because of my age I don't notice it nearly as much.

-Fuji

[Pacific lefty]

I am really skeptical about the flu shot in general. Here in Ireland a few years ago there was panic about the H1N1 bird flu and people were urged to get vaccinated, particularly children. Shortly afterwards, there was a rise in narcolepsy cases in vaccinated children. It hasn't necessarily been proven, but the stories and some statistics are worrying. The way people were frightened and encouraged to get the vaccine, and the pharmaceutical company making loads of money in supplying it...and then finally, no outbreak whatsoever of this "killer bird flu pandemic", I think you really have to weigh the benefits and risks...

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Pacific lefty

I am really skeptical about the flu shot in general. Here in Ireland a few years ago there was panic about the H1N1 bird flu and people were urged to get vaccinated, particularly children. Shortly afterwards, there was a rise in narcolepsy cases in vaccinated children. It hasn't necessarily been proven, but the stories and some statistics are worrying. The way people were frightened and encouraged to get the vaccine, and the pharmaceutical company making loads of money in supplying it...and then finally, no outbreak whatsoever of this "killer bird flu pandemic", I think you really have to weigh the benefits and risks...

The money you pay for insurance just makes the insurance companies richer.

Till you have the need for it.

These things are probabilistic.

[pvaudio]

With all due respect, those people who are against vaccination because they themselves don't understand it are not the ones who should be giving advice. That 10% efficacy is an enormous amount of people. If there are say, 100M people over the age of 65, you've just protected 10,000,000 people from a disease which can be quite easily fatal (usually not directly, but rather the flu weakens them to be vulnerable to complications from other more easily fought off sicknesses) to their age group. To say that since it's less than 50% effective that it's somehow not worth the "risk"/money/anything else is absolutely absurd

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Never had a flu shot... last time I got the flu was when I was a kid in school and even then it was more like a cold than anything else. Wash your hands before meals, stay away from people that are sick. Wash your hands when you touch something that's been touched by someone who shows signs of being sick with anything. Eat peppermint candy when you're around people who are sick. Yes, believe it or not, peppermint in your stomach is a natural antiseptic of sorts.

Then you did not have the flu. It is absolutely nothing like a cold.

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by v-verb

I used to skip the shot - would get the flu for a week - sicker than hell. I've been getting the shot yearly for the last few years. No flu.

Skip the flu shot. I don't really care. Get sick or not - your choice. Kids and elderly die every year from the flu. Sad because it's likely preventable.

I'm not wasting any more time providing any articles to read. Do what you want.

Kill this stupid thread because the vaccine dissenters will never change.

It's simply congeniality bias and cognitive dissonance which I find quite humorous actually. If you don't want to get a vaccine, then don't get one. No one is forcing you to get a measles, pertussis, mumps, hepatitis, tetanus, or meningitis vaccine either. Spreading an absolute lack of science and mathematics in the form of blogs and opinion articles based on a handful of people isn't proof of anything. It's just justifying what you want to be assured of: that since you haven't gotten the flu OR you once got sick having gotten the vaccine anyway that you shouldn't get or or don't need it. The fact that something may not work is not the same as the fact that it does not work. If that's the case, no one would ever get antibiotics which aren't close to 100% effective. And yet, when you get a Z-pack which makes you feel better, you don't hear anything to the contrary. The evidence only points in one way and it is toward prevention. It always has.

[iradical18]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

It's simply congeniality bias and cognitive dissonance which I find quite humorous actually. If you don't want to get a vaccine, then don't get one. No one is forcing you to get a measles, pertussis, mumps, hepatitis, tetanus, or meningitis vaccine either. Spreading an absolute lack of science and mathematics in the form of blogs and opinion articles based on a handful of people isn't proof of anything. It's just justifying what you want to be assured of: that since you haven't gotten the flu OR you once got sick having gotten the vaccine anyway that you shouldn't get or or don't need it. The fact that something may not work is not the same as the fact that it does not work. If that's the case, no one would ever get antibiotics which aren't close to 100% effective. And yet, when you get a Z-pack which makes you feel better, you don't hear anything to the contrary. The evidence only points in one way and it is toward prevention. It always has.

Very well put, couldn't have said it better. There's a reason medicine is moving towards prevention. Way too many conspiracies and rationalization going on as to the reasons not to get it.