Wrist movement, straight forehand and other questions

[10isfreak]

My favorite blogger recently resealed a new article which covers many subjects that might be of popular interest here:
-anatomical comparison of the Federer and Djokovic forehands;
-the straight versus bent arm debate;
-amateurs and pros: differences;
-the role of the wrist during forehands.

The role of the wrist
The author references a German publication on the role of the wrist, maintaining that this joint
plays a two-folded role in tennis forehands: it both serves an acceleration and control purpose.

But the most stunning part of it, at least to me, is that players like Federer and Nadal do not
meat the ball with a very passive, extended wrist... the exact opposite would be true:

Originally Posted by SpeedMaster

In most cases, the initial movement is Wrist Extension
where the racquet hand bends backwards, and then as the entire racquet arm
is swung forwards to Impact (using Internal Rotation of the shoulder), there is
a controlled – and in the case of Federer and Nadal, a rapid forward movement
of the racquet hand even compared to many fellow top pros – or Wrist Flexion –
into Impact and continues into the follow-through.

Amateurs versus professionals
The main argument the blogger makes is to the effect that "less is not more." Many people
would argue that, unlike pros, amateurs will be bound to perform sub-optimal motions by
sub-optimally sequencing sub-optimal movements and that, therefore, they should seek
to simplify their strokes.

The author goes the other way around the problem. In the world of pros "more is always
better": optimal forehand motions are complex and they organize very subtle movements that
are key to a good stroke. By trying to comply with the above advice of simplification, amateurs
tend to do two things:
1- Get rid of certain movements -- often useful movement because they rarely
can differentiate between what is essential and what is not;
2- Limit the scope of certain movements by restricting the degree of freedom of
certain of their body parts.

Originally Posted by SpeedMaster

In either case, optimal mechanics will not be achieved
because neither the correct movements are used, nor are those separate
movement “components” used in the correct or optimal sequence. In other
words, if you are seeking to maximize performance, going down the path of
reducing or restricting motion more often than not leads to lower absolute
performance levels rather than higher ones.

In other words, you're better off with an approximation of a professional stroke, with an imperfect
execution of an optimal stroke than with a perfect execution of a sub-optimal stroke. I leave it up
for discussion.

[10isfreak]

The name of the publication is
“Tennis Course: Volume 1 Techniques and Tactics”

[julian]

Originally Posted by 10isfreak

The name of the publication is
“Tennis Course: Volume 1 Techniques and Tactics”

BTW:it is the title of the GERMAN publication,not the title of the blog

[Relinquis]

so what you're saying is... straight arm is better because roger, nadal and delpo use it and they're pretty awesome.

[10isfreak]

I didn't say that straight arm is better because Federer, Del Potro and Nadal use it. However, the straight arm forehand does enable you to tap into extra power -- which does translate into additional pace and additional spin.

But that's not due to Federer or Del Potro's or Nadal's awesomeness on the court... it's due to the Stretch-shortening cycles that these players enjoy and that cannot be enjoyed (to the same extent or at all) by players who use a double-bend. One of the SSC happens in the rotator cuff and is a by-product of thee initial external shoulder rotation that straight arm hitters perform and one happens in the forearm due to the extreme position of the hand when you use a straight arm forehand.

You do factually hit harder with it and, again, factually speaking, it did yield better results almost 3 to 1 in GS since 2004. Now, does that suits you? That's an other question -- and one worth asking.

[10isfreak]

Originally Posted by julian

BTW:it is the title of the GERMAN publication,not the title of the blog

Yes, it's the Title of the book... Obviously, no blog is titled this way and it seemed sufficiently obvious for me to omit the adjective.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by 10isfreak

I didn't say that straight arm is better because Federer, Del Potro and Nadal use it. However, the straight arm forehand does enable you to tap into extra power -- which does translate into additional pace and additional spin.

But that's not due to Federer or Del Potro's or Nadal's awesomeness on the court... it's due to the Stretch-shortening cycles that these players enjoy and that cannot be enjoyed (to the same extent or at all) by players who use a double-bend. One of the SSC happens in the rotator cuff and is a by-product of thee initial external shoulder rotation that straight arm hitters perform and one happens in the forearm due to the extreme position of the hand when you use a straight arm forehand.

You do factually hit harder with it and, again, factually speaking, it did yield better results almost 3 to 1 in GS since 2004. Now, does that suits you? That's an other question -- and one worth asking.

It's also harder to control and master.

[ace_pace]

Well for me, I have been on a quest to see if I could get a forehand similar to Nadal/Federer for probably years now. When I came across that blog, it opened my eyes a lot. I think that now I've achieved the 'straight' arm forehand and to be quite honest, it does feel much more powerful and for less effort too. But I have to admit, it was hard to learn it and I still have consistency issues.

You could also ask aimr75, his forehands pretty similar to Fed.

On topic, I agree with the SpeedMaster obviously.

[TheCheese]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

It's also harder to control and master.

Harder to master. Easier to control.

[Cheetah]

Harder to master but Easier to control? That doesnt make sense

[Relinquis]

i hit straight arm since i was a child... have tried double bend, but didn't like it. felt the ball was too close and i couldn't hit through as comfortably. I had no idea about SSC advantages. but i do remember having an epiphany sensation when practicing forehands with my coach... an almost whipping or slingshot feeling of the forearm. it just happened and i was doing it over and over... then some sessions i wouldn't be able to replicate it.. until i kinda figured it out. my forehand is still not pro-level by any means, but i think i'm benefiting from SSC.

what i found interesting is what happens at contact (hitting straight or otherwise) when i'm really going for my shots (e.g. winners).. hitting more through the ball rather than being passive and/or coming off of it. I don't know if (or how) this relates to SSC or the role of the wrist. i just focus on having the racquet face closed earlier in my swing so that when i hit through it is still closed and launches the ball forward rather than upwards.

Links in chain

Two experiences: I can really understand the concept of amateurs not having the proper chain of movements.

1 - My forehand:
I never used to think about my footwork, but my forehand was good. I started hearing about open stance vs. neutral stance and "walking steps" and other techniques. i tried them out and lost a bit from my forehand. it messed up my timing. it actually took me a bit of practice to be able to hit my drive forehand again. i had to forget about my legs and let it come naturally. now i just focus on what i want to do to the ball with my racquet and make sure i swing fully. my legs sort themselves out and are now a part of the motion most times as i'm not thinkign about open stance or neutral stance. i just make sure that i'm bouncy enough and am getting to the ball in time. the only "step" i think of at times is the split step when i'm tired late in a match.

2 - My serve:
during my service motion, i sometimes feel that i can launch my body into the air, effortlessly or feel a kind of slingshot of my torso, but for some reason it doesn't translate properly into racquet head speed, or when it does i don't make contact with the ball. when performing my serve I have rarely felt that "slingshot" sensation i have felt often with my forehand and backhand (single handed). I feel like the chain isn't linked... need more practice i suppose.