I have discovered the secret to 4.0 doubles service returns!

[Cindysphinx]

Well, shoot.

I played a match and botched every one of my super-awesome new service returns. I returned serve like a blind man, and that is an insult to blind men.

Back to the drawing board.

[goober]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Well, shoot.

I played a match and botched every one of my super-awesome new service returns. I returned serve like a blind man, and that is an insult to blind men.

Back to the drawing board.

That was a short honeymoon.



Lesson learned: use it as one in your arsenal of service returns. Don't use it all the time in every situation.

[Govnor]

You got to mix it up.

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by Govnor

You got to mix it up.

Shirley you mean shake it up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WUw1bwf9DA

[LeeD]

I'm sorry.
Now work on it. Shoulder turn, move forwards, have the target (low CC) selected and accepted, visualize approximate bounce height of the ball, and prepare you racket with that height in mind. Watch ball, volley thru it without going for too much.
If netperson start to lean towards the middle, hit one DTL with lots of backspin.
Keep working on new shots. They are new, and you haven't "got" them yet.
You WILL.

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by LeeD

I'm sorry.
Now work on it. Shoulder turn, move forwards, have the target (low CC) selected and accepted, visualize approximate bounce height of the ball, and prepare you racket with that height in mind. Watch ball, volley thru it without going for too much.
If netperson start to lean towards the middle, hit one DTL with lots of backspin.
Keep working on new shots. They are new, and you haven't "got" them yet.
You WILL.

LeeD, shake it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYKquSt0UEs

[SwankPeRFection]

You stand too close to the service line on me and my flat serve might not be hitting the court first.

Seriously though, while this may be your new found defense, get yourself motivated to have a better offensive return than a pusher block. If you start playing like this too much, you'll end up pushing everything back too much. Learn to return hard and wide/cross court on serves to your forehand and either inside-out backhand or strong down the middle just by the net person and back deep at the server that's coming a few feet in after a proper service motion. It'll catch them by surprise and they won't have time to set up a good return. Then your partner or you put the weak return away.

BTW, serve and volley players will kill you on this type of return, especially if they're really quick on their feet. You'll need to perfect it to get past them, but if they're coming in hard after a kicker, expect your partner or you to get passed with a nice strong volley put-away after your slice. Either that, or their partner should be reading your return better and poaching to put it away. Tick off a really good team and they'll I formation you on serve and your stand-in return is pretty much useless at that point because either the net person is in a super strong position to put your return away or you get it past them down the line and the server has plenty of time to get to it and smack it back at you or down the middle splitting both you and your partner.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not knocking your new found golden weapon, but don't expect to use it all match long unless you're not really playing 4.0 players. Add some other returns to your game and then mix things up.

[LeeD]

As usual, I find the opposite is true....
A low chip slice is the best return against a S/V player, as the low ball makes him hit up, but the slice and slow pace makes him hit thru the ball while hitting upwards. And, it's easy to control the ball height over the net.
Wouldn't this depend just how powerful your groundies are, how consistent, and how that matches up against your volley return skills?

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

You stand too close to the service line on me and my flat serve might not be hitting the court first.

Are you a 4.0 woman?

Seriously though, while this may be your new found defense, get yourself motivated to have a better offensive return than a pusher block. [/quote]

Ahem. I wish I could groove this new return. See, I already have a topspin return, which is fine. Except when it isn't. If the server is coming in behind a hard flat serve, this return is much, much better than trying to hit a regular return.

But it doesn't matter now. I can't seem to find my mojo with this return anymore. I guess it is like anything else: It is going to take a boatload of practice to own it.

[asimple]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Don't misunderstand, I'm not knocking your new found golden weapon, but don't expect to use it all match long unless you're not really playing 4.0 players. Add some other returns to your game and then mix things up.

This is my default return which worked well even in open tournaments against Div 1 college players although sadly other things did not. When this shot is hit properly and low, it is incredibly difficult for the other team to do anything with it as their time is taken away. Poaching this is nearly impossible.

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Learn to return hard and wide/cross court on serves to your forehand and either inside-out backhand or strong down the middle just by the net person and back deep at the server that's coming a few feet in after a proper service motion.

This is what I really hate about lower level doubles which I am sadly playing now. I'm cool if my partners can make this "hard" shot 95% of the time, but most of them make it 70% on a good day, and worse yet it isn't really effective if the server is coming in or not. I also have the hard return, but when my block isn't working tend to hit a slower heavy topspin shot which is more consistent and a lot more effective.

[Rjtennis]

Originally Posted by LeeD

How about a 6'5" ex number 4 for CalPoly, still 27 years old?
How about a ex no 2 for Harvard, now trying to make the first round of an ATP tourney?
Do those guys have "real" first serves? I think so.

So you are playing those guys and they don't punish you for just chipping balls back into play. I realize you need to chip serves back into play in certain situations, but doing on every 1st serve will cause problems. And with a 2HBH it's probably easier and more effective block it back with a half swing.

[Cindysphinx]

Played mixed yesterday against a 4.0 guy. I could tell in warm-up I was going to be in hot water the entire match. He calmly hit the corners on his serve, and I couldn't read it at all.

After a few attempts at a normal return, getting none in play, I switched to the slice return. It was better, but they kept floating long.

I adjusted my grip from Conti to Eastern, and I got just enough of them in play for us to break him once. Then he started body serving me, and I started missing again.

Gotta keep working on it. I think this return will be essential in mixed. Even a crappy, floating slice return that goes in and is deep is better than slapping the ball into the net.

[sureshs]

How can 4.0 serves trouble anybody?

[Nellie]

If you don't want the slice returns to float, you need to step into the returns (i.e., be a little aggressive). When you step backwards/hit late, it will open up the face of the racquet. This, of course, is easier said than done since you will usually be slicing returns when the server is doing a good job.

[Cindysphinx]

4.0 guys can have a lot of spin or a lot of placement. Either will bother me.

The 4.0 guy serves that do not bother me are the ones where the guy has no spin and it just comes straight into the box every time. For those, I can stand back and will have time.

[LeeD]

A 4.0 serve can trouble other 4.0's.
A 4.0 serve dominates a 3.5.
A 4.0 serve kills a 3.0.
A 4.0 serve, done smart, can trouble 4.5 and 5.0's,
A 4.0 serve can be a sitter for a 5.5 thru 7.0, but that would depend how the 4.0 serve is. A lefty hitting wide and then twisting it up around 6' at the baseline might hang in for one more shot.

[skiracer55]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Played mixed yesterday against a 4.0 guy. I could tell in warm-up I was going to be in hot water the entire match. He calmly hit the corners on his serve, and I couldn't read it at all.

After a few attempts at a normal return, getting none in play, I switched to the slice return. It was better, but they kept floating long.

I adjusted my grip from Conti to Eastern, and I got just enough of them in play for us to break him once. Then he started body serving me, and I started missing again.

Gotta keep working on it. I think this return will be essential in mixed. Even a crappy, floating slice return that goes in and is deep is better than slapping the ball into the net.

...a slice return makes all kinds of sense, but your fundamentals have to be there or it's going to be as sketchy as any other kind of return: Read (the serve), react (make a move to get to the ball), return (execute the return).
As I said in a similar thread some time ago, if you are having a hard time reading the serve, then start guessing. Make them intelligent guesses, but you're better off taking a chance on where you think it's going to go...and maybe guessing wrong...and just standing there flat-footed and watch the world go by. And yep, a smart server, after you start getting your returns grooved, is almost always going to start hitting body serves. Same deal as above: if you know it's going to be a body serve, make a move early. Easiest way for me to take a body serve is a backhand block or slice...pretty much the same thing you do when you're at net and somebody tries to drill you another navel. If your slice is floating, you're either hitting down instead of through the ball or not finishing the stroke at all. Short backswing, of course, but step toward the ball and finish the stroke...

[LeeD]

For RJTennis....
While a sliced low approach is not necesarily the most desired return of serve against a strong serving Div1 opponent, it sure does beat hitting the net, hitting long, or hitting wide.
Those guys are used to serving well into the 125's and kicking head high second serves. It would be rather impossible for a 4.0 to step in and hit topspin winners off those serves.
Just getting it back to NML low is a victory in itself. After that, the point is basically nuetralized, and a former 5.5 will almost always beat a crippled 4.0.

[stapletonj]

I honestly believe that the return of serve is the single most difficult shot in tennis. It is also the hardest to practice.

Chip and charge, Cindy - go gettum girl!

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by Nellie

If you don't want the slice returns to float, you need to step into the returns (i.e., be a little aggressive). When you step backwards/hit late, it will open up the face of the racquet. This, of course, is easier said than done since you will usually be slicing returns when the server is doing a good job.

Great post. Slices in general and returns in particular, either are knifed low over the net and at the ankles of the server or ar popped long or as a sitter to the netman.

Some days you hit the former and others the latter. Nellie's advice to try to be more aggressive (on an already aggressive serve) as the solution is good advice, though sometimes difficult to accomplish.