How to get 1 ATP point from doug9238

[jrs]

Came across this another thread and thought it deserved a thread on it's own - I have nothing to do with it's all from doug9238

Here is the original thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=385000

Reading some of the posts - I realized I should post the link to the original thread - as some people are thinking this is a way for rec players to move up their level. Hope this clears up the confusion.

Originally Posted by doug9238

Here is how to get the one point that you are seeking:

#1 - get down to 8-10% bodyfat or less. You can't afford to be carrying extra weight or you will hurt yourself in the stress of the hard training. This is the point where you look down and see the hollywood six pack of abs. All rising and current tennis pros have it, and maybe the falling ones don't anymore and that partly explains why they are falling. This will take you anywhere from 3-6 months depending on how out of shape you are now. This will come with 80% diet and 20% exercise. Once you have acheieved this, you will have an A+ bodybuilder diet and a great exercise regimine as your base to begin the next steps.

#2 - build a huge cardio base. Work up to the point where you are 40+ miles per week. You will be running 6 days per week and have a combination of a long run (15+miles), a tempo run (6-8 miles at 80% max HR) and speed work (10 800's @ 95% max HR). The other three days will be easy/recovery runs with one rest day. Depending on your shape, this will take 3+ months to get to this point. A good test to see if you are ready for the next step is when you can run a mile sub 5:50, 5K sub 20 minutes and a half marathon sub 1 hr 35 min. Once you pass this test, you are ready to move on.

#3 Hit the gym hard. You need a ton of fast twitch muscle in your lower and upper body. You will achieve this by doing supersets and cicuits alternating days with upper body and lower body. Lower body exercises will be power squats, lunges, calf raises hip flexors and abductors. Upper body will be mainly core and back, along with wrist/forearm with a little chest and arms. This will be about 3 months. Your body will look a bit like a boxer once you are done with this phase. Next you will be ready to begin the tennis specific training

#4 Find a great coach that you can work with a minimum of 3x per week for 1.5 hours per session. Plan you budget to be about $500 per month minimum for this service. Your coach will analyze your game and more than likely have you start over completely and teach you the basics, which will start with very fast and explosive footwork and and cat like reflexes. Even with all of the prep you did in steps 1-3, you will walk away from the training feeling like you body was run over by a truck, but since you put in your time with the diet, cardio and weights, you will recover quickly and make gains without getting injured. after about 6 months of training like this, you will begin to get muscle memory and be taking split steps on every shot without even thinking about it. You will instictively explode on the first and last step with every ball you hit. You will will take large steps and follow them up with tiny steps. You will wear out your shoes about a pair per month. You will get smart and purchase your shoes 6 pairs at a time. You will rarely even touch your heels on the tennis court. Plan on 6months to one year to get to this point, depending on your mental strength.

#5 Once you are ready, your coach will teach you the technical aspects of the 5 types of shots. forehand, backhand, volley, overhead and serve. Then you will hit over 10,000 balls before the muscle memory kicks in and you can do them instinctively. You will hit 100 forehands crosscourt and miss 5 or less and no pushing. They will all be deep with topspin. Then you will do backhands and volleys. Once you can sustain this, you will have decent rally shots. Then you will work volleys, overheads and serves. You will work your serve on your own time, 4x per week 100 1st serves to both sides with 60% in and 100 2nd serves to both sides with 98% in. Plan on 6 months to achieve this

#6 Next you will hit the tournaments. You will crush everyone so bad at a 4.5 tournament that it will not even be fun. You will find that you can hit winners without even bending your knees or even raising your heart rate. You will never touch a 4.5 tournament again. In the opens, you will win the matches and it will feel just like the training that you have been doing. You will realize that you play in the matches exactly the same way you have been hitting in training. No such thing as a good day and a bad day anymore. The variation in your game is minimal, and you act on instinct and not on emotion.

7# Next you hit the qualies of the futures. Here it is a whole new game because you are facing some big leage spin and pace and variety that not even your coach was giving you. Your instincts tell you what to do and you have to rely on your fitness to get you to the ball every time. You will realize that you belong here, but everyone will play hard and the competition will be fierce. The mental toughness is what will win in the end along with a little luck and the wise shot selection on the few key points.

from here the only way to elevate your game is to take your fitness to a new level and to increase mental toughness

Those are the steps to get a few ATP points, and only in that order with no shortcuts. The adaptability of the human body is absolutely incredible and the honest truth is that most people are actually capable of achieving it, but the reason that 99.9% do not is because who would actually committ put themselves through the process described above, which is torturous to say the least.

[goober]

Sounds great in theory. I don't agree that most people are capable of achieving it. You take your average joe off the street and actually submit him to this program, he will probably only get to the 4.5 part if lucky. Each step is glossed over as if it a matter of fact that will happen if you just do it. So far of all people posting here who claim to be pursuing ATP points from a recreational level adult start. Nobody has even come close.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by goober

Sounds great in theory. I don't agree that most people are capable of achieving it. You take your average joe off the street and actually submit him to this program, he will probably only get to the 4.5 part if lucky. Each step is glossed over as if it a matter of fact that will happen if you just do it. So far of all people posting here who claim to be pursuing ATP points from a recreational level adult start. Nobody has even come close.

Actually I do think that most people under 35 or so are capable of achieving 4.5 if they devote themselves completely to that goal - i.e. are willing and able to put in the time and effort to train to the extent Doug described, plus are able to afford a lot of quality coaching.

Those are huge ifs though. How many people would be willing to spend 30+ hours and $400+ a week on tennis and training, just to get to 4.5?

EDIT: I don't mean to say that this is the only way to get to 4.5 of course... in reality most 4.5s get that way because they also have some innate talent and without putting in nearly that level of effort. What I mean is that if you take a random 35 or younger person off the street and subject him to that level of training, I would have a 90%+ confidence level that he would be able to reach 4.5.

[jrs]

I don't think I even know anyone that would dedicate themselves to the level Doug describes. But it is the best description, I've come across that explains the Pro Tennis game.

[mmk]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Actually I do think that most people under 35 or so are capable of achieving 4.5 if they devote themselves completely to that goal - i.e. are willing and able to put in the time and effort to train to the extent Doug described, plus are able to afford a lot of quality coaching.

Those are huge ifs though. How many people would be willing to spend 30+ hours and $400+ a week on tennis and training, just to get to 4.5?

EDIT: I don't mean to say that this is the only way to get to 4.5 of course... in reality most 4.5s get that way because they also have some innate talent and without putting in nearly that level of effort. What I mean is that if you take a random 35 or younger person off the street and subject him to that level of training, I would have a 90%+ confidence level that he would be able to reach 4.5.

So my first step would be figuring out how to shed at least 22 years. I'll get back to you on how that works out.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by mmk

So my first step would be figuring out how to shed at least 22 years. I'll get back to you on how that works out.

LOL.

Of course I didn't mean to imply that it's not possible for anyone over 35 to work their way to 4.5.

Just that with someone < 35, I think it's 90%+ possible given total dedication. Whereas > 35, maybe only 50% possible even with the same level of dedication, because of potential physical limitations.

PS I'm not in the <35 category either

[spinorama]

Step 1.) be born with natural talent, excellent hand eye coordination, and athletic ability/potential

[goran_ace]

I saw doug9238's post in the other thread and thought it was intended to be tongue-in-cheek and not a serious post.

[goober]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Actually I do think that most people under 35 or so are capable of achieving 4.5 if they devote themselves completely to that goal - i.e. are willing and able to put in the time and effort to train to the extent Doug described, plus are able to afford a lot of quality coaching.

Those are huge ifs though. How many people would be willing to spend 30+ hours and $400+ a week on tennis and training, just to get to 4.5?

EDIT: I don't mean to say that this is the only way to get to 4.5 of course... in reality most 4.5s get that way because they also have some innate talent and without putting in nearly that level of effort. What I mean is that if you take a random 35 or younger person off the street and subject him to that level of training, I would have a 90%+ confidence level that he would be able to reach 4.5.

I don't think I am disagreeing with you. I think there is a 4.5-5.0 ceiling for players who start tennis as adults that only a very small percentage break through.

[jrs]

Originally Posted by goran_ace

I saw doug9238's post in the other thread and thought it was intended to be tongue-in-cheek and not a serious post.

I thought this makes sense. I wanted to see what others thought of it. I would think you need to put this type of work in to get to the top level in tennis.

[Govnor]

That advice was for a 4.5/open player. If that level of player was willing to put in all the time, effort and $$ that the post suggests, I would think they'd be pretty disappointed if they didn't get their point.

[Moz]

An interesting post, it's the sort of thing that a 40 year old would come up with if he spent all day in a pub with just a pen, notepad and a lifetime of regrets as company.

#2 would make more sense if:

1) Long run was cut shorter.
2) Tempo // hill sprint one week, vo2 max // hill sprint the following week rather than tempo // vo2 max each week.
3) VO2 max work was a total of about 6 weeks (improvements plateau over less than 3 months).
4) It included explosive footwork sessions on the court.
5) 2 rest days would be beneficial.

[JRstriker12]

Originally Posted by jrs

I don't think I even know anyone that would dedicate themselves to the level Doug describes. But it is the best description, I've come across that explains the Pro Tennis game.

How does it even come close to explaining the pro tennis game?

Has to be a joke.
-3 months to develop a pro level cardio base?
-3 months of work in the gym to build the muscle you need to compete?
-1600 serves per week (4x per week 100 1st serves to both sides with 60% in and 100 2nd serves to both sides with 98%)

LOL!

A pro level game is built over decades of practice and work. Your average rec player would fall apart physically before they even got half way through this, especially if that person was your average 30-something 3.5/4.0 USTA player.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by goober

I don't think I am disagreeing with you. I think there is a 4.5-5.0 ceiling for players who start tennis as adults that only a very small percentage break through.

Got you, yeah, I agree... ceiling for most adults who didn't have extensive training as juniors is 5.0ish, even with dedication.

[jrs]

Originally Posted by JRstriker12

How does it even come close to explaining the pro tennis game?

Has to be a joke.
-3 months to develop a pro level cardio base?
-3 months of work in the gym to build the muscle you need to compete?
-1600 serves per week (4x per week 100 1st serves to both sides with 60% in and 100 2nd serves to both sides with 98%)

LOL!

A pro level game is built over decades of practice and work. Your average rec player would fall apart physically before they even got half way through this, especially if that person was your average 30-something 3.5/4.0 USTA player.

When I watch the pro's play - everything is so machine like - very little variations from shot to shot.
He makes the point about what you do in practice - exactly what you do in the match.

That's what I meant about explaining the pro game.

[Sup2Dresq]

Originally Posted by Moz

An interesting post, it's the sort of thing that a 40 year old would come up with if he spent all day in a pub with just a pen, notepad and a lifetime of regrets as company.

#2 would make more sense if:

1) Long run was cut shorter.
2) Tempo // hill sprint one week, vo2 max // hill sprint the following week rather than tempo // vo2 max each week.
3) VO2 max work was a total of about 6 weeks (improvements plateau over less than 3 months).
4) It included explosive footwork sessions on the court.
5) 2 rest days would be beneficial.

Could you spell it out a little more for us aspiring Nair mens short wearing wannabes?

No seriously.. I need specifics. Run this.. for this long.. this many times a week.

Thanks Moz!

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

Actually I do think that most people under 35 or so are capable of achieving 4.5 if they devote themselves completely to that goal - i.e. are willing and able to put in the time and effort to train to the extent Doug described, plus are able to afford a lot of quality coaching.

Those are huge ifs though. How many people would be willing to spend 30+ hours and $400+ a week on tennis and training, just to get to 4.5?

EDIT: I don't mean to say that this is the only way to get to 4.5 of course... in reality most 4.5s get that way because they also have some innate talent and without putting in nearly that level of effort. What I mean is that if you take a random 35 or younger person off the street and subject him to that level of training, I would have a 90%+ confidence level that he would be able to reach 4.5.

I agree with this, but I think setting the bar at 4.5 is too low.

I'm a 4.0. A lot of the 4.5 women I know are older than 40, and they got to 4.5 without working at it obsessively. No training, some instruction, lots of match play. Heck, I think I could make it to 4.5 in three years if I really tried and really paid a lot for instruction.

I would imagine someone 35 and under ought to be able to get to 5.0. Is that wrong?

[yonexpurestorm]

i think if someone were to follow these instructions they would get above 4.5 within a year or two. it also depends if your talking about doubles or singles, or high level 4.5 or average 4.5. i dont personally see 4.5 as that high of a level. however, progressing past that is tough. not only because 5.0 and 5.5 are way better divisions, but also because they dont technically exist. anything above a 4.5 is now playing open tournaments, and opens have a very large range of players. i wouldnt know where to define that range either, and i have played quite a few opens.

[goober]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I agree with this, but I think setting the bar at 4.5 is too low.

I'm a 4.0. A lot of the 4.5 women I know are older than 40, and they got to 4.5 without working at it obsessively. No training, some instruction, lots of match play. Heck, I think I could make it to 4.5 in three years if I really tried and really paid a lot for instruction.

I would imagine someone 35 and under ought to be able to get to 5.0. Is that wrong?

On the women's side I would say 5.0. I have played with a lot of 4.5 rated women who basically play a lot but have questionable mechanics. There are a lot of 4.5 women who still have frying pan serves, but have good groundstrokes and volleys. These are mostly 40 and 50s age range and play mostly doubles.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I agree with this, but I think setting the bar at 4.5 is too low.

I'm a 4.0. A lot of the 4.5 women I know are older than 40, and they got to 4.5 without working at it obsessively. No training, some instruction, lots of match play. Heck, I think I could make it to 4.5 in three years if I really tried and really paid a lot for instruction.

I would imagine someone 35 and under ought to be able to get to 5.0. Is that wrong?

Originally Posted by goober

On the women's side I would say 5.0. I have played with a lot of 4.5 rated women who basically play a lot but have questionable mechanics. There are a lot of 4.5 women who still have frying pan serves, but have good groundstrokes and volleys. These are mostly 40 and 50s age range and play mostly doubles.

Remember I was talking about a 90%+ rate of success.

I do think that many people < 35 can get to 5.0 if completely dedicated. But not 90%+. Whereas I believe 90%+ can get to 4.5.