Roddick Haters

[Chanchai]

When we're talking about Roddick and unfavorable conditions and particularly away from home... should we be talking about non-anglo dominated regions? Someone already mentioned his coming from behind against Hewitt at the AO, though I think 2003 AO vs. Youzhny is probably the strongest example. I think the person made a typo (and maybe meant Youzhny?) because they never fought in Australia and Roddick is 0-3 against Hewitt (only playing each other in 2001 and the only time he came close was during that US Open match that many people remember Roddick blowing his top and throwing whatever chance he had in that match -- "ARE YOU AN ABSOLUTE MORON?!" in voice straight out of the exorcist).

Anyways, here's what I could dig up (thank you ATP site) -- I refrained from picking tournaments in the US, England, Australia, and Canada (though I am tempted to say Montreal is not anglo... and there were some examples there against Kuerton and Malisse)
-2002 TMS Rome vs. Pavel -- 1-6 6-4 6-3
-2002 TMS Rome vs. Ferreria -- 3-6 6-4 6-2

If you want to count first set down in 5 setters... (in non-anglo regions)
-2001 Roland Garros vs. Chang -- 5-7 6-3 6-4 6-7(5) 7-5

If anyone cares for doubles (in non-anglo regions)
-2004 Doha partnered with Koubek vs. Escude & Grosjean -- 2-6 6-3 6-4

That aside... yeah, not a very spiffy non-anglo down a set or two recovery record, but for his sake--it wasn't super common for him to lose that first set in those tournaments. If anything, it almost seems like he drops the first set back home in the states a lot more (well, ratio wise). Too lazy to put up charts about that stat though. But you could say that it's almost always clear who the better player of the day was during those tournaments. The bottom-line is that he hasn't shown much in terms of recovering in truly foreign areas where he probably has signficantly fewer supporters, chanters, and screaming girls.

In the US, Canada, Australia, and England side of things--I think he has his fair share of coming from a set or two-down victories.

In Davis Cup play, I don't think he's had a comeback from behind, pure drama victory yet though. As strong as his Davis Cup record is.

-Chanchai

[yee]

Thanks Chanchai.

That's the type of post I appreciate. Coming up with good and valid examples (but didn't appreciate that FO e.g vs Chang, we knew how that went)

I just hope people will READ properly, my point is not saying Andy is not a good fighter, except that I realised he's not as mentally strong and fight equally hard whenever he's not playing on his favourite surface or condition. I feel that Hewitt or Coria are stronger in that sense. That's all.

[yee]

Since you mention Davis Cup, for those of you who think Roger's not mentally strong, this guy had played for most of past 2 years in opponents ground needless to say unfavourable condition and won most of his DC matches, both singles and doubles. I don't have to say how much the burden is on Roger each time he plays in DC, he's not only expected to win both his singles but doubles too. This year he had to fly right away after AO to Romania without any rest to play on clay, and again he won them all.

But then of course people will only remember that match he lost vs Hewitt in last year DC sf. What did he do after that? Bagelled Hewitt 3 times since then.

I don't think mental strength is only SOLELY to measure from how one can come back from matches, but also how one's able to take the pressures of not playing in favourable condition.

[Chanchai]

Totally understand Yee (and agree for the most part -- referring to first post).

It's just too bad that despite the young career of Coria, he's had to pull out midmatch so many times because of injury (it's amazing he fights as long as he does through the ones he does pull out of) and of course the drug testing issue that had him out for awhile (hence many people wonder last year where the hell he came from).

On the injury notes, and maybe what you were pointing out (maybe not, you left it open on a lot of good levels), yeah... Roddick before 2003... Chang vs. Roddick (which I happened to watch a year before I started seriously playing tennis), Roddick was cramping the final set and eventually won. Of course comparisons to Chang's match against Lendl would be inevitable there and Chang was a sport to offer some advice to Roddick (even if it's general advice most athletes should know, it's good sporting). And it would have been nice to see Chang play further into the RG draw then. BACK TO RODDICK... I remember one of the last times I saw Roddick screaming out in cramps (a subtopic suitable for this thread, since a lot of haters are likely to assume Roddick was faking or at least being ultra whiny for a variety of reasons including gamesmanship--I can see why they'd view it that way obviously)--that was against Lapentti @ TMS Toronto 2002 (R32). Lapentti got so ****ed off that after the handshake with Roddick and the Chair Umpire, he couldn't hold it in and gave Roddick a piece of his mind. Despite the screaming demands of the fangirls who had practically gotten onto the court to get Andy's autographs, Andy and Lapentti continued the exchange for awhile as the Chair tried to calm Andy down (couldn't hear anybody trying to calm Nicolas down).

To clarify, I was at the time and still am a Roddick fan. But can't fault anyone for getting annoyed of those vocal cramps happening a lot in 2002 (and I can only guess 2001, I wasn't quite watching tennis at the time). And it was a HUGE SHOCK (maybe that's even an understatement), watching Australian Open 2003 against Youzhny and ESPECIALLY El Aynaoui (gee, you didn't see that one coming huh?) without a mutter or sign of cramps. Amazing training during the indoor court season and offseason? Stronger maturity? Growing up a bit? More fuel for the Roddick Haters? Whatever it is, I guess it only adds to the polar appeal of Roddick (for both those that love him and those that love to hate him).

On Davis Cup... Yeah, amazing what Federer is doing in general, but also in Davis Cup. However, if Switzerland was still in the running... and if they would win the DC.... Doesn't that sort of throw the notion of Davis Cup as a team competition out the window? Kind of kidding... obviously, the Fed fans and many others would say it's the testement to this guy's abilities (and his doubles partner too, though we wouldn't hear much about that).

Side note (extra super rant)... a topic that could sort of transcend this thread and others like it (ex. Hingis)... Could be "What do we look for in the athletes we enjoy watching or following." It's obvious everyone has their own criteria and justification. Hell, criteria could be the same such as "class" but the actual definition of that definition (class) is totally different from indvidual to individual. Some say Hingis is "a class act" (non-sarcastically), where many would say she was a brat. Should athletes be "role-models?" I personally don't think so, for all I know most of us care about them because they're good at whatever it is they do, by various means. And like an old commercial, "parents should be role models" (as opposed to athletes). What's the big criteria for your devotion to this/these athlete(s)? Is it just because of charisma? Just because of controversy? Just because of nationality or represented nation/region? Just because your friends like them? Just because they think as much (or as little) as you do and on such a similar level? Because you feel they are an extension of you? Because they extend what you want to be or do? The bottom line for me is that a lot of people make the actions of their "idols" (sincere or manufactured, tasteful or distasteful) so personal... They make these athletes such a personal thing for them. Thing is, a lot of them don't even realize it (hence some people come out as hypocrites actually). Does it all really matter? In any case, a lot of these guys and girls on the tours are inspiration on some levels to me, and they're great entertainment for me too, maybe even a guide for some tennis--but they're just people.

-Chanchai

[yee]

I'll leave the discussion of Andy's cramping out of here for sure, Chancai but yes I did watch both his match vs Chang and also lapentti. No concrete evidence to say anything about that and so I shall leave my opinion out of here.

Somehow I actually agree with what you said about the Swiss/Roger in DC. But let's not forget that Michel was the one who contributed the last point to bring the Swiss into last year SF. Besides I believe Roger's current partner Allegro is actually quite a good double player himself. So yes and no to that. But in most circumstances, it's more a yes

[Chanchai]

Yeah... no concrete evidence. That's what makes a figure controversial among other things... hehe... it's also what makes sports what they are (hey, I love watching soccer for both the skill and technique as well as having fun figuring out who is acting how much and who is really hurt).

But yes... discussions of cramping could escalate to levels of discussions of fires (or discussions of Hingis ethics at Roland Garros for that matter).

Good points on Swiss DC. And their team definitely has capable players (but have to fight against insanely tough teams). To their credit, they've been in the top 8 awhile now and I expect them to be for years to come.

Some more on Andy... he does seem to do a lot during the offcourt training though... During late winter/early spring, I swear his neck just kept growing. The Trucker Hat's gotta be more natural looking on him now than ever (kinda kidding of course). I thought Hewitt might've looked like he bulked up a bit earlier in the year too (or was I just influenced by commentary, probably Carillo?).

-Chanchai

[Joe Oldschool]

Roddick is a classic American tennis brat. All ego and posturing. I think he has a very teenage mentality at this point in his life. The hyper macho, tough guy BS is really just to hide the fact that he is insecure about himself. (and also probably getting some B-t lovin from Gilbert.)

[mileslong]

i hate brats and roddick is just the latest. sometimes these guys grow up like agassi did who i once despised and now respect greatly. time will tell on him.

the current combination of he and gilbert is just oo much for me to bear right now...

[Chanchai]

Miles, I'm glad that you admit there was a time you didn't like Agassi back in those days (or even admit that he was a brat back then). Of those that despised Roddick, the ones that despised me were the ones who would sort of hate on Roddick right after praising Agassi all night/day.

That aside, it's nice to see how Agassi matured. Though I sorta feel sorry for whoever has the role of ballkid for his matches on any given day, lol. On that note, gotta feel sorry for whoever is chair umpire for Andy Roddick (and on occasion David Nalbandian or Guillermo Coria).

-Chanchai

[VamosRafa]

Now that everyone has aired their issues re Andy, I hope we can move on.

I can see why he isn't everyone's cup of tea, for reasons pointed out above.

But it's nice to recognize that other people here may like him, notwithstanding his flaws. Nearly every player on the Tour has a flaw or two. And in my view, Andy has less than some, and more assets than many others.

But that's my view. There is room for other views. But we have heard them ad nauseum.

I hope Roland Garros gives us something a bit more interesting to talk about.

Susan

[SonicSpeed]

Originally Posted by mileslong

i hate brats and roddick is just the latest. sometimes these guys grow up like agassi did who i once despised and now respect greatly. time will tell on him.

the current combination of he and gilbert is just oo much for me to bear right now...

Agassi...mature??? He just hides it better. When he lost the match to the qualifier at St. Poelten (few days ago), he yelled "F*** me" and "Fa*got". Yea that's great maturity right there.

[Feña14]

Roddick isn't just a Brat, he is also a PUNK!.

I don't know if you know this, but I don't like him

Liam

Originally Posted by yee

I only comment on Andy mentally not as strong in unfavourable situation compared to Hewitt and Coria. Of course you're welcome to prove me wrong by citing me one e.g which's he came abck at an unfavourable situation?

For one thing, my post wasn't even directed at you.

For another thing, I never compared Roddick to Hewitt or Coria. Hewitt and Coria are both mad raving lunatics on the court who will fight for every stinking point they can get. Roddick is the same way but Hewitt, in particular, uses this gift of his to his maximum potential, which is why he's won so many titles and also why---interestingly enough--- nobody singularly owns him (unlike Coria, Federer, Roddick, and pretty much everybody else).

And lastly, off the top of my head I can give you three brilliant comebacks Roddick has performed in his young career: RG 2001 vs Chang; AO 2003 vs Youzhny ; and USO 2003 vs Nalbandian.

Not to take away from Federer's brilliance but I'll be even more impressed with him if he ever comes back from the brink of certain defeat as often as Roddick has.

[VamosRafa]

Roddick isn't just a Brat, he is also a PUNK!.

Well, it's nice to know that young brat/punks are pretty nice -- at least nowadays. Makes me wonder how great the truly nice guys are.

Example, from the Pioneer Press, May 8, 2004:

Man recounts escape from deadly fire
by: Jim Wells


When Pete Holm looked out the fourth floor window of his Rome hotel room early last Saturday morning, he could see flames licking at the edges of the building from below.

With the hallways full of smoke, there was only one for way for the St. Paul man to escape: out the window, one balcony at a time, using a bed sheet as a rope.

That plan did not work for a hotel guest on the floor above him. Holm watched helplessly as the man, also an American, fell to his death. . . .

Peter Docherty of Wayzata owns Docherty Incentives, the company that arranged the trip [for Holm and others]. He and his wife were on the seventh floor when the fire broke out. They managed to reach the patio of another hotel guest they later discovered was American tennis star Andy Roddick, who was in the hotel with about 30 other players scheduled to play in the Italian Tennis Open.

Docherty and others were able to wait on Roddick's patio until the smoke cleared and then exited.

'Andy Roddick was wonderful,'' said Docherty, whose voice was still hoarse Friday from the smoke inhalation. 'I was wearing nothing but a robe I took out of my room. Andy offered me his sweater. I didn't need it, but he went back in his room and got me a pair of tennis shoes to wear.''

Perhaps a non-punk would have done more, but I think Andy did pretty well for a punk.

[ibemadskillzz]

Originally Posted by SonicSpeed

Agassi...mature??? He just hides it better. When he lost the match to the qualifier at St. Poelten (few days ago), he yelled "F*** me" and "Fa*got". Yea that's great maturity right there.

He did not say ****ot
don"t lie

[yee]

Originally Posted by Free_Martha

For one thing, my post wasn't even directed at you.

I thought anybody can post to any topic they like to respond to here, whether it's directed to you or not

Originally Posted by Free_Martha

Not to take away from Federer's brilliance but I'll be even more impressed with him if he ever comes back from the brink of certain defeat as often as Roddick has.

Ask his opponents to try harder and and put him more in the brink of defeat then.

I mentioned unfavourable situation, AO, USO are not unfarouvable to Andy. As for FO vs Chang, I had no comment. Of courset then you'll think I'm just bias no doubt.

Originally Posted by yee

I mentioned unfavourable situation, AO, USO are not unfarouvable to Andy. As for FO vs Chang, I had no comment. Of courset then you'll think I'm just bias no doubt.

How in your world is being two sets down on match point NOT considered "unfavorable" for Andy? I don't care if he's playing in the US or on Mars. Those situations were pretty damn "unfavorable."

[yee]

pffff.

I'd already define my "unfavourable" and haven't I already given my credit for Andy's mental strength? I was only just pointing out some other aspects of my observation.

I think while you're critisizing others here who drool over federer's achievement, you're the same over andy.

[mileslong]

Perhaps a non-punk would have done more, but I think Andy did pretty well for a punk.

wow, i guess i am wrong then. we should give him the congressional medal of honor for letting some people hang out on his patio and offer a woman a robe...

[SonicSpeed]

Originally Posted by ibemadskillzz

He did not say blah*ot
don"t lie

I'm not lying. He's said it before in the past too. And I like Andre.