I think Federer needs to fire Tony Roche (might be a spoiler)

[@wright]

Federer is volleying very well now. There is certainly a marked improvement over the past couple years. I think Federer is looking forward to the future when he won't be as fast and will need to end points quicker without expending as much energy as baseline play does.

[uNIVERSE mAN]

Originally Posted by Marius_Hancu

No, the problem is that under Roche he hasn't made progress in that area of net play. Hist wrist isn't this strrong as Sampras', thus the instability under heavy fire. Thus, yes, you're right to some extent, perhaps they should part ways.

It's not the wrist you dodo! sampras has a heavier racquet which is better designed for S/V, Roger's racquet is lighter and is harder to control for purely S/V. If you gave Sampras this racquet, he'd have problems playing those vollies too.

[ACE of Hearts]

He will be fine!He has maded a ton of errors these last 2 matches.I will say that if he doesnt start playing crisp tennis, he will lose!U just cant get away with stuff like that, no matter how great u are.

[Marius_Hancu]

Originally Posted by uNIVERSE mAN

It's not the wrist you dodo! sampras has a heavier racquet which is better designed for S/V, Roger's racquet is lighter and is harder to control for purely S/V. If you gave Sampras this racquet, he'd have problems playing those vollies too.

reserve dodo for yourself and your family.

I think I know that better than you do.
I am using a 6.0 85 balanced close to Sampras'.
(395g, 32.5cm balance from the butt end, strung).

You're very probably not playing with one.

This is not necessarily better for volleying, in one respect, as it is less maneuverable, and less headlight.

E.g. Daniel Nestor is using a 390g, 29.7cm balance strung, racquet, and he's one of the best doubles players in the world, thus a very good volleyer.
Thus he's using a much headlight racquet.

But it was better for Sampras' arm, who could handle it.

Still, Sampras' arm was stronger, and the wrist, and that is the point. Fed has the technique, of course, but not the strength to withstand this many heavy balls at him as Sampras was doing.

[Chopin]

These posts are becoming boring...Federer keeps winning and he appears healthy--those are the only things that matter. Its like everyone on this board expects him to win every match in straight sets. He's still on track to becoming the greatest ever.

[Marius_Hancu]

deleted post.

[NoBadMojo]

Federer is NOT an emerging volleyer..he is not an emerging serve/volleyer...In fact, he used to do that sort of thing much more earlier in his career, and is highly skilled at it. In fact, the shot he has developed which he didnt have before is the drop shot...he already had the volley and the transitional shots. Fed knows people cant win tourneys and majours by being at net (other than selectively because he knows the game has changed even since when he was at net a lot more just a couple years ago)..he's just playing smart tenniss, adapting, and playng the style required to win.

[Moose Malloy]

I honestly don't think Roche is really Fed's coach. He's more of a part-time consultant. He wasn't even with Federer at the US Open. And he's only been at a few events since joining Fed.
Fed is the only one to blame win or lose. You overestimate the role of a coach in Fed's results.

This 4 setters was longer than the 5 setters with Haas. Fed looked tired at the end, not sure if he would have been able to pull it out had it gone 5. And he's lucky they didn't play during the day.

[tylerchadwick]

my take on the last two matches are court postioning and his backhand volley. Feds forehand volley was right on nearly every time vs. Davy. The thing I noticed was he missed probably 90% of volleys on his backhand side. He even framed some seemingly easy volleys. other missed backhand volleys were due to delay in the transition to net or poor approaches. His forehand lacked the federesque pace, depth, and variety to set up the points. Also, Davy played most of the rallies on or inside the baseline which made Federer play behind hit. THerefore, his shots lacked the depth to take control of much of the points. It really didn't seem like he anticipated the fiestiness and speed of Davy and wasn't interested in using good footwork to be in position to be aggressive. Vs. Haas, he seemed way more aggressive and in control. In the 3rd and 4th sets he played just a couple of loose points and Haas played incredible defense which Fed wasn't expecting.

Two great wins but really scarey to see his fitness break down like that last night. Scary for fed fans, and I'm a big one.

JMHO

[Keifers]

Agree that Fed looked quite tired at the end there. To me, that reflected his mental fatigue as well as his physical fatigue after a tense and very physical match. The pressure coming from Davydenko was relentless.

[joe sch]

Originally Posted by @wright

Federer is volleying very well now. There is certainly a marked improvement over the past couple years. I think Federer is looking forward to the future when he won't be as fast and will need to end points quicker without expending as much energy as baseline play does.

This is the truth.
The Fed Roche relationship is to give Roger the tools to win for the next decade, otherwise he will not be the now appointed all time great.

[@wright]

I think this makes the most sense, Joe. Some of you will take this as heresy, but there were several times during the Davy match that Federer hit a volley winner that reminded me of Sampras. The touch Sampras used to knock off a volley seemed duplicated a few times by Federer last night. I do think that he is still developing as far as getting in even when it's not as comfortable to. He even charged the net down a set point! If you don't believe in your volley, you do NOT do that!

[Jolly Reaper]

Personally, I think that Federer is doing a great job coming to the net. There are times when it's probably not the best idea, but as long as he picks the right times, instead of all the times, then I think it's great.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by Keifers

Looking back on the whole match, I don't think Fed came to net too much. He did win one of his service games in the last set by serving up the middle medium pace and following it into the net. Drew a weak return and volleyed it away -- surprised Davydenko nicely.

I think he's playing a predominantly baseline game, especially at the AO (Rebound Ace). Certainly his volleys are not as good as they were when he beat Sampras at the 2001 Wimbledon. ('Course he doesn't get much practice in volleying in most of his matches.)

Yes, Keifers, I concur. Fed's net game and approach shots certainly improved in the last set when he really needed it. I started this thread in the middle of the 3rd set based upon his play up to that point and also from the Haas match. Fed really did raise his game when he really needed it. Saving 6 set points at the end of the 3rd set and coming back from 3-6 down in that 3rd set tiebreak is indisputable evidence of that.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by West Coast Ace

Have to respectfully disagree with BP on this. With Nadal looming, Fed can't get too comfortable hanging out at the baseline. And not hitting crisp approaches isn't Roche's fault - coming to the net on a good approach is a sound strategy; coming to the net on anything less is a Kamikazi Run. And the only way Fed will learn is to do it in matches.

I agree. I'm all for all-court play, S&V, chip and charge, etc., because that's what I do. You're right in that Fed shouldn't just plant himself on the baseline and needs to develop ways to pressure his opponents even more. However, it just seems to me that, at the moment anyway, he appears to be forcing it a bit too much and being caught flatfooted or blowing easy volleys on occasion. It just doesn't always seem natural to me compared to say a Rafter or Edberg. That's why I was blaming his coach because I think he's gotten to Fed's head that he needs to be at the net more but it's not yet totally natural for Fed and is , at the moment, causing him to make some uncharacteristic errors.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by @wright

He even charged the net down a set point! If you don't believe in your volley, you do NOT do that!

But as I recall that was on a second serve, down set point, and he served and vollyed and lost the point. Probably not the best time to do that and probably not the smartest thing to do given the incredible strength of his baseline game. Please correct me if my recollection of that point is incorrect.

[Shaolin]

Fed needs to drop his "consultant" or get a new one. That match (vs Davy) was the worst Ive seen him play in a long time. Davydenko played stellar to push him to that point but he missed so many volleys and easy balls, it was hard to watch. It was similar to Shanghai when he was dumping volleys into the net right and left.

His game sucks now compared to 2004. Hope he goes solo again.

[federerer]

I think Roche's role is probably a bit over-stated. I agree with those who view Roche mainly as a consultant. It seems that they just talk about tennis quite a bit rather than the role of a typical coach who sort of takes control of a players game.

Fed has been way off his game the last two matches, but the opponents have a lot to do with that. Haas and Davydenko played excellent tennis. We see Fed botch a bunch of points at the net and say Roche has messed him up, but there were long stretches where he was botching things from the baseline as well. I mean, how many framejobs did he have his last match?

Fed depends so much on his movement, that when he gets tired he's not able to execute with the prolonged excellence that we are used to. Last match he pretty much stopped moving his feet which is almost certain death at the net.

[156MPHserve]

I think it's great that he's coming to the net more. He's 24, sorry guys but Federer is HUMAN. Even now he can't play 5 sets of good tennis, what happens when he's 27? He might not be like an Agassi, being proficient at the net will SAVE and EXTEND his career.

[Klippy]

I might just be being a little superstitious here, but has anybody noticed that after Federer teamed up with Roche, and also after that new haricut, he has become sort of...more...stuck-up. Modest. Maybe a little arrogant? He has also been shouting "Common!" more on the court and stuff like that. And also getting angrier more often, when he makes errors and stuff.
Of course, I am not saying that Roche made him that way, or that the haircut has some sort of magical powers, lol. And of course, every player has every right to shout "Common!" on the court. It is not against the rules. I just liked the old Roger better, the quiet one, with the pony-tail and with this...shyness about him. Now he seems so...sure of himself. But he's still pretty cool.